[neuhaus]

^ John Bentley Mays writes well here. I couldn't agree more.

Concerning the current 50 Bloor proposal, I will not give a hoot if the possible real estate downturn spells doom for the project.

600 units in 83 storeys, these will be seriously large and expensive units.
Competing condos in that league are already having a hard time selling their luxurious units (Ritz-Carlton, Trump, Shangri La, etc.), downturn or not.

 

[Automation Gallery]

600 units in 83 storeys, these will be seriously large and expensive units.
Competing condos in that league are already having a hard time selling their luxurious units (Ritz-Carlton, Trump, Shangri La, etc.), downturn or not.

Dont forget that out of the 83 storeys there is 8-10 storeys of commercial space.

 

[WiddleBittyKitty]

Oh come-on please, some people are never happy with anything that is built/proposed here in TO.

This is how you know you've been spoiled.
...
Right now in Philadelphia people are getting very excited for a 12 floor closet organizer being stacked on top of a parking lot.

Really, it's crazy that we should be demanding leading edge architecture. We should be grateful for any lump that anyone wants to foist upon our skyline… after all beggars can't be choosers, right?

Wait - what's that? There's a huge amount of construction in Toronto? We can afford to demand better? If only there were an online forum where people could discuss their aspirations for Toronto's built form! What a great place that would be! Somewhere that the average Joe who has posted 6,667 or 4,236 times (as of time of publication) would understand that the way a building looks has value and therefore is intrinsically important for those who call that city home! I can only dream though, as such an online forum surely does not exist.

 

[androiduk]

We already have Heritage Conservation Districts to regulate new construction in sensitive areas so maybe we can have Design Review Districts. These would be high profile areas where tall buildings would have a visually significant long term impact. Developers would know in advance, if they want to build there - it better be good.

 

[buildup]

"We can demand better"

I suppose we can always demand better, but sometimes we should be grateful for what we have. Anyone could list 20 projects underway or planned that any city in the world would be delighted to have.

So yes, we can always 'demand better' from others. We should also demand better of ourselves because (possibly) there are people not too impressed with our output at work or school etc.

 

[Torontovibe]

"We can demand better"

I suppose we can always demand better, but sometimes we should be grateful for what we have. Anyone could list 20 projects underway or planned that any city in the world would be delighted to have.

So yes, we can always 'demand better' from others. We should also demand better of ourselves because (possibly) there are people not too impressed with our output at work or school etc.

What a defeatist attitude you have. You don't become a great city, thinking like that. Have a bit more ambition for this city and maybe, it might just surprise you.

 

[UrbanFervour]

Toronto will not be great by buildings alone. Improving the public realm is the #1 thing we could do to make the city more appealing. At present it still reads as an apalling mess and i hope all the new residents of downtown begin to get more passionate about this.

I am firmly on the side of those who think this should be a great building and would be a huge missed opportunity if some towering pile of cheap, ovebearing G&C/Zeidler/Pellow/kirkor spandrel crap banality is built there. What about an international design competition for a GREAT building at the heart of a great new world city?

 

[bmiller]

If some economists are to be believed, with an inevitable slowdown in the condo market, some of these will not make it past the design stage. Which ones is the big question. 50 Bloor is a good candidate because it is only an idea at this point.

 

[TonyV]

600 units in 83 storeys, these will be seriously large and expensive units.
Competing condos in that league are already having a hard time selling their luxurious units (Ritz-Carlton, Trump, Shangri La, etc.), downturn or not.

"Seriously large and expensive units" sounds fine to me, and let the developer worry about whether or not there is a market for them, but there you are -- it's an opportunity for something with a signature look to it, rather than this safe and indeed antiseptic looking proposal. It's not about height (I like 83 storeys), but rather, it's a corner that is just begging for some big hair. What a cheap developer -- luxe suites, bargain-basement copycat architect.

 

[caltrane74]

Really, it's crazy that we should be demanding leading edge architecture. We should be grateful for any lump that anyone wants to foist upon our skyline… after all beggars can't be choosers, right?

Wait - what's that? There's a huge amount of construction in Toronto? We can afford to demand better? If only there were an online forum where people could discuss their aspirations for Toronto's built form! What a great place that would be! Somewhere that the average Joe who has posted 6,667 or 4,236 times (as of time of publication) would understand that the way a building looks has value and therefore is intrinsically important for those who call that city home! I can only dream though, as such an online forum surely does not exist.

You have the dermination, you need to put it to use. Accumulate the money and build the towers the way you feel fit. Or, like Leftcoaster over at SSP, get a job at one of the developers and work your way up to the top, and make a real impact on the design of buildings. Other options include, becoming a chair on the city design and review panel, or short of that becomign the most amazing engineer/architect ever, and desiging materials that make the most amazing glamour buildings at the most cost effective price point. Giving you a double win, cause you'll make a lot of money on the patents Motorola style!! Pretty obvious the main problem we have here in Toronto is that we are conservative, conserative with life, conservative in how we make money, only going for the sure thing. It works, keeps our pockets filled and everyone gets fed. But we gotta take some real chances, and get rich, Super rich, Carlos Slim rich, everyone in the city needs to get that rich, then we can charge crazy money for condos and the building quality will improve. Let's face facts the only way you get dream buildings is by having lots of super rich people that want to live downtown. It's economics plain and simple. If I was rich like Carlos Slim, and Prince Bin Alwaleed I'd be building all the stuff you see going up in Dubai and London, just like that. Pay off the city with a new park and swing set for the kids, and just roll like that. Imagine that. Crazy.

On another note...

Everytime I open my browser at Skyscraperpage I laugh at Philadelphia, Sorry, I laugh my ass off, till my nose runs, stomach hurts and eyes water looking at the projects going on there. They're short and boring boxes, makes Pickering look like Atlanta. Sounds mean, but it's true. And to think they are twice as rich as us, and this is the "crap" they're getting, but you see, they all want to live in mansions in New Jersey, so the downtown living vibe wont support a lot of really tall glamourous condos in downtown. Maybe some condo hotels, and stuff, university and office buildings. But that money is all running to the suburbs. Toronto is moving up slowly takes time, we're doing it the right way. You'll see.

 

[Xray_Crystal_Junkie]

Not that this at all invalids what you said, but this is what Philadelphia recently got...

There are probably worse cities to pick on.

 

[Torontovibe]

You have the dermination, you need to put it to use. Accumulate the money and build the towers the way you feel fit. Or, like Leftcoaster over at SSP, get a job at one of the developers and work your way up to the top, and make a real impact on the design of buildings. Other options include, becoming a chair on the city design and review panel, or short of that becomign the most amazing engineer/architect ever, and desiging materials that make the most amazing glamour buildings at the most cost effective price point. Giving you a double win, cause you'll make a lot of money on the patents Motorola style!! Anyways telling myself or AG, that we should be demanding more, when we like what's being built is not going to change how you view what is being built in the city.

Everytime I open my browser at Skyscraperpage I laugh at Philadelphia, Sorry, I laugh my ass off, till my nose runs, stomach hurts and eyes water looking at the projects going on there. They're short and boring boxes, makes Pickering look like Atlanta. Sounds mean, but it's true. And to think they are twice as rich as us, and this is the "crap" they're getting. If I was rich like Carlos Slim, and Prince Bin Alwaleed I'd be building all the stuff you see going up in Dubai and London, just like that. Pay off the city with a new park and swing set for the kids, and just roll like that. Imagine that. Crazy.

Philadelphia is twice as rich as Toronto? How do they come up with those figures? I remember driving through mile after mile of decrepit, ghetto areas in Philly. I was kinda in shock how big the poor areas were, so I find it surprising that a city with such huge ghettos can be twice as wealthy as Toronto. Is it a small number of super rich people who bring up the average?

The nice areas of Philly, are very well maintained and quite beautiful but they are a tiny area in comparison to the bad parts of Philly. I guess our wealth is better distributed among the population but I still find it hard to think of Philly as a wealthy city.

 

[greenleaf]

Pretty obvious the main problem we have here in Toronto is that we are conservative, conserative with life, conservative in how we make money, only going for the sure thing. It works, keeps our pockets filled and everyone gets fed. But we gotta take some real chances, and get rich, Super rich, Carlos Slim rich, everyone in the city needs to get that rich, then we can charge crazy money for condos and the building quality will improve. Let's face facts the only way you get dream buildings is by having lots of super rich people that want to live downtown. It's economics plain and simple. If I was rich like Carlos Slim, and Prince Bin Alwaleed I'd be building all the stuff you see going up in Dubai and London, just like that. Pay off the city with a new park and swing set for the kids, and just roll like that. Imagine that. Crazy.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Regardless, that doesn't sound like a city I'd want to live in.

 

[caltrane74]

Not that this at all invalids what you said, but this is what Philadelphia recently got...

There are probably worse cities to pick on.

I did say Philadelpia is twice as rich as Toronto didn't I?


However once they got that.....

Philadelphia is twice as rich as Toronto? How do they come up with those figures? I remember driving through mile after mile of decrepit, ghetto areas in Philly. I was kinda in shock how big the poor areas were, so I find it surprising that a city with such huge ghettos can be twice as wealthy as Toronto. Is it a small number of super rich people who bring up the average?

The nice areas of Philly, are very well maintained and quite beautiful but they are a tiny area in comparison to the bad parts of Philly. I guess our wealth is better distributed among the population but I still find it hard to think of Philly as a wealthy city.

Take a look at the post right above yours.

Their wealth is corporate. GDP is close to 500 billion, Toronto's GDP is 250 billion.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Regardless, that doesn't sound like a city I'd want to live in.

It's a choice you have to make if you want the biggest and the best of the world. You won't get fancy stuff being poor, or timid.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

One thing I will give Philadelphia - and granted I've only seen it in passing riding on Amtrak and on SSP threads - is that they inherited an amazing rail infrastructure from the Reading and Pennsylvania railroads. For a city smaller than Toronto they have a bounty of electrified commuter and intercity railways that is almost European in scale, to say nothing of IRT-style four track express subways as well.

That, and they've managed to keep a refurbished fleet of PCCs in operation.