Amare said:
^The "Entertainment District" has been going through a long, slow, and painful death as condos with generic retail spaces at the podium levels have been taking over. In the next 5-10 years, the only entertainment that will be in the area will consist of a movie theater and a couple spaces to watch plays. Asides from that, everything has essentially be forced out of the area through various means. It's a really sad thing to see.
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So True?
 
Amare said:
^The "Entertainment District" has been going through a long, slow, and painful death as condos with generic retail spaces at the podium levels have been taking over. In the next 5-10 years, the only entertainment that will be in the area will consist of a movie theater and a couple spaces to watch plays. Asides from that, everything has essentially be forced out of the area through various means. It's a really sad thing to see.
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I'm guessing you don't actually live in or go to the ED very often. It used to be a mess of parking lots that is pretty much dead until some suburban kids use it to party on weekends. It's actually very lively, and the condos in the ED are better managed than most of the SouthCore/City Place condos. I think you really need to reassess what you think of when it comes to lively, because by most people's definitions, a dedicated party place full of parking lots and night clubs in the heart of the city is not that. ED is far from dead; it's just more liveable now.
 
DtTO said:
I'm guessing you don't actually live in or go to the ED very often. It used to be a mess of parking lots that is pretty much dead until some suburban kids use it to party on weekends. It's actually very lively, and the condos in the ED are better managed than most of the SouthCore/City Place condos. I think you really need to reassess what you think of when it comes to lively, because by most people's definitions, a dedicated party place full of parking lots and night clubs in the heart of the city is not that. ED is far from dead; it's just more liveable now.
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Nice try, but yes I have and continue to go to the Entertainment District fairly regularly and have been for the past few years. Enough so that I can notice the change that has taken place throughout the entire area. I never once claimed that the District is lifeless.

What I did say is that the "Entertainment" is slowly be driven out of the area and replaced by condos which have brought very little value to the area asides from residents who want to live in the core. Of course there are still things to do around in the area (ie: restaurants, theaters, movies, bars, etc..) but the rate at which numerous outlets have left the district over the past few years has been pretty astounding. Numerous bars, restaurants, and other unique venues have closed up in place for condos where the unique outlets were replaced with generic retail outlets (obviously there are some exceptions to this).

Essentially my point is, the entertainment options have been getting far less diverse compared to what they were 5-10 years ago and the trend has been continuously getting worse.
 
It isn't that simple, really. Sure, sites (parking lots, etc.) were bought, but it's also reflective of a shift in nightlife where people don't want to go to the sort of venues that populated the ED in 2005. The preference now is for smaller, more intimate venues on the west side of Spadina, and larger, more 'underground' rooms like 500 Keele in farther-flung areas. The decline in the ED was both municipally driven by people like Councillor Vaughan, but also motivated by a fundamental shift in the preferences of patrons. If people aren't filling the rooms, they get sold.
 
Funny... for me, lamenting the demise of the so-called Entertainment District only serves to underscore how it's merely part of an ongoing pattern of morphing city life - how various parts of the city changes over the course of decades. Back in the day my lot went to speaks and warehouse parties in what's now known as Liberty Village - long before the hideously botched transformation which so blighted that area. I suppose it was intended to be a cure for a sketchy place but the cure ended up being worse than... well, enough of that. Anyway, in the early 80s, before the big clubs came around and "the Entertainment District" was even mentioned as a destination, the area was comparatively dead and lifeless.

Very little is permanent, especially when we're talking about a city undergoing the kind of massive, accelerated transformation this one has been witnessing the last couple of decades. Neighbourhoods change and not everyone likes that dynamic. To a certain degree this city is a victim of its own success. What was once slightly risqué and cool becomes gentrified as the chains come in and alter the landscape... people chasing the nocturnal life inevitably find other venues for their kicks - they always do.
 
ProjectEnd said:
It isn't that simple, really. Sure, sites (parking lots, etc.) were bought, but it's also reflective of a shift in nightlife where people don't want to go to the sort of venues that populated the ED in 2005. The preference now is for smaller, more intimate venues on the west side of Spadina, and larger, more 'underground' rooms like 500 Keele in farther-flung areas. The decline in the ED was both municipally driven by people like Councillor Vaughan, but also motivated by a fundamental shift in the preferences of patrons. If people aren't filling the rooms, they get sold.
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Couldn't agree more, however you'll even notice a lot of the more intimate venues on the west side of Spadina are starting to get driven out as well to places further west for various reasons as well (ie: sky-high rents after development occurs and new landlords come in, smaller and less suitable retail spaces, etc...). There has also definitely been a (successful) political push to get those typical massive clubs out of the district, personally i'm not really concerned about that.

Developers should really think about getting more creative with their retail uses at grade around in this area, because many of them are just squandering new opportunities by coming up with unimaginative generic retail spaces. On a side note, the BIA may want to consider coming up with a name change because this "Entertainment District" moniker will get to the point where its pretty misleading.
 
Amare said:
Couldn't agree more, however you'll even notice a lot of the more intimate venues on the west side of Spadina are starting to get driven out as well to places further west for various reasons as well (ie: sky-high rents after development occurs and new landlords come in, smaller and less suitable retail spaces, etc...). There has also definitely been a (successful) political push to get those typical massive clubs out of the district, personally i'm not really concerned about that.

Developers should really think about getting more creative with their retail uses at grade around in this area, because many of them are just squandering new opportunities by coming up with unimaginative generic retail spaces. On a side note, the BIA may want to consider coming up with a name change because this "Entertainment District" moniker will get to the point where its pretty misleading.
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Sure, but for the most part, condo retail is an absolute afterthought. After an architect has placed all of the at-grade necessities (parking ramp, loading bay, garbage room & tri-sorter, moving room, lobby, exit stairs, elevators, CACF, etc.) there usually isn't much room for excellent retail. Especially on tighter, Entertainment District sites, the retail isn't a selling feature, it's at best a way to fill the remaining space fronting the street. I too would love to see excellent, narrow bay, high ceiling retail, but because of the way that the aforementioned elements get stuffed in at the back, the sort of retail that makes an excellent street just isn't possible.
 
Lenser said:
Funny... for me, lamenting the demise of the so-called Entertainment District only serves to underscore how it's merely part of an ongoing pattern of morphing city life - how various parts of the city changes over the course of decades. Back in the day my lot went to speaks and warehouse parties in what's now known as Liberty Village - long before the hideously botched transformation which so blighted that area. I suppose it was intended to be a cure for a sketchy place but the cure ended up being worse than... well, enough of that. Anyway, in the early 80s, before the big clubs came around and "the Entertainment District" was even mentioned as a destination, the area was comparatively dead and lifeless.

Very little is permanent, especially when we're talking about a city undergoing the kind of massive, accelerated transformation this one has been witnessing the last couple of decades. Neighbourhoods change and not everyone likes that dynamic. To a certain degree this city is a victim of its own success. What was once slightly risqué and cool becomes gentrified as the chains come in and alter the landscape... people chasing the nocturnal life inevitably find other venues for their kicks - they always do.
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Gerrard and Bay was once our bohemian village (imagine that!). A mini Greenwich Village. Then there was Yorkville, Yonge Street, Queen West (University to Spadina or so), Liberty Village etc. This as you say is nothing new.
 
ProjectEnd said:
Sure, but for the most part, condo retail is an absolute afterthought. After an architect has placed all of the at-grade necessities (parking ramp, loading bay, garbage room & tri-sorter, moving room, lobby, exit stairs, elevators, CACF, etc.) there usually isn't much room for excellent retail. Especially on tighter, Entertainment District sites, the retail isn't a selling feature, it's at best a way to fill the remaining space fronting the street. I too would love to see excellent, narrow bay, high ceiling retail, but because of the way that the aforementioned elements get stuffed in at the back, the sort of retail that makes an excellent street just isn't possible.
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Which is why some developers have been including plans for retail uses on the 2nd and 3rd floors of their proposals.

Developers in the downtown core are more than capable for accommodating space for various retail functions, the one's who dont are either: unimaginative, max profit-oriented, or simply put just lazy.
 
There are very few balconies on the south side of this one in the massing put forward here, really hope they'll spring for curtain wall and nice materials.
 
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