[interchange42]

Sorry, there's no basis in fact for declaring that Aura's retail level is any lower than it should be.

The reason that there is a change in level between the concourse level at College Park and the one at Aura is that there's the changing topography to deal with in the area.

Up at College Street, the escalator ride down to PATH level in College Park is just as long as it is from the entrance of Shops at Aura down to PATH level there. At the south end of College Park, however, grade level has dropped enough that it's only a few steps down to PATH level from the street. The stairs leading from College Park PATH level underneath the (future) park to Aura merely reset PATH to deal with that drop.

It has nothing to do with where the loading docks are (which would be another level underground.)

42

 

[waterloowarrior]

Agreed. Part of that problem is the Planning department, which doesn't pay enough attention to how these spaces might be used.

The Planning Act prohibits municipalities from regulating interior design and the layout of interior areas (excluding "the provision of interior walkways, stairs, elevators and escalators to which members of the public have access from streets, open spaces and interior walkways in adjacent buildings")

 

[taal]

My only hope is with this flop developers going forward will know to avoid it ... though Emerald park will very likely end up the same way, particularly that T&T is lost.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

The Planning Act prohibits municipalities from regulating interior design and the layout of interior areas (excluding "the provision of interior walkways, stairs, elevators and escalators to which members of the public have access from streets, open spaces and interior walkways in adjacent buildings")

Rules were made to be broken. I think there is a case here for the city to take control of planning of the PATH networks, at least when it comes to vital hallways and corridors for pedestrian movement and general PATH wayfaring. We should stop treating it as an extension of owners properties and start treating it as the vital function of our city and integral part of our public realm that it is.

 

[Skeezix]

The Planning Act prohibits municipalities from regulating interior design and the layout of interior areas (excluding "the provision of interior walkways, stairs, elevators and escalators to which members of the public have access from streets, open spaces and interior walkways in adjacent buildings")

I am very familiar with the Planning Act, and there are many ways in which municipalities can, and do, control these types of matters. For example, Toronto often achieves these types of objectives through Section 37 (as a legal convenience, not a public benefit) as one possible mechanism. Even under site plan control, as you've quoted (although the Planning Act actually doesn't apply to site plan approval in Toronto - the City of Toronto Act does), the issue can be addressed even simply through the careful placement of interior walkways.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Sorry, there's no basis in fact for declaring that Aura's retail level is any lower than it should be.

The reason that there is a change in level between the concourse level at College Park and the one at Aura is that there's the changing topography to deal with in the area.

Up at College Street, the escalator ride down to PATH level in College Park is just as long as it is from the entrance of Shops at Aura down to PATH level there. At the south end of College Park, however, grade level has dropped enough that it's only a few steps down to PATH level from the street. The stairs leading from College Park PATH level underneath the (future) park to Aura merely reset PATH to deal with that drop.

It has nothing to do with where the loading docks are (which would be another level underground.)

42

Dude, like I said, I'm very familiar with the loading docks at College Park which Aura shares,.... the Aura-CollegePark-777Bay loading docks are NOT underneath the basement retail level of Aura; they're on the same level,... here's a floor plan map of the basement retail level of Aura,... notice the clearly labeled loading dock area in dark grey:
http://theshopsataura.ca/floor-plan/

Note: where map reads College St. should really say CollegePark,... then College St.


Notice how small the Aura loading dock is relative to the floorplan,.... in reality, the loading docks gets larger as you go northwest since its part of a network of loading docks for CollagePark & 777 Bay Street - basically all under Barbara Ann Scott Park and the newer part of CollegePark - at the northeast corner of Barbara Ann Scott Park, that cement covered patio area where Richtree set up their summer patio is actually the roof of the loading dock area.

Since for the most part, Aura basically uses the existing ramps and loading docks structures of CollegePark & 777 Bay St,... Aura really didn't need to build much of their own loading dock structures so what would have been the area for their underground loading dock structures were repurposed as their basement retail level,... thus, Aura really did sell loading dock space as their basement retail space!

Note: From Aura basement floorplan map, they placed their food court area (red) as far as possible from main escalator at Yonge Street, so people going to food court are forced to walk through as much of the basement retail level as possible,.... problem is, the food court stalls are like 3/4 empty!,.... so why would people go down there?


Furthermore, it's not really fair comparing retail floor height of Aura with CollegePark which was built almost 100 years ago using very different building structures and thus, their retail floor height tends to be quite large. But, let's go with the comparison anyways,.... using the northeast stairs of CollegePark near Tim Horton & Winners, there's 32 (regular) steps on the staircase between the street level floor and lower concourse floor of CollegePark.

At the northeast corner of Aura retail area, there's no stairs only escalator down to basement. Thus, I'll use that basement Aura retail level to College Park lower concourse level link (the PATH link between Aura and CollegePark),.... where there's 6 + 13 + 10 = 29 (high steps) + another 8 (narrow) steps from CollegePark lower concourse to their streetlevel College Park south entrance,,... for a total of 37 steps (This assumes the south CollegePark street level entrance is level with the Street level entrance of Aura about 100 feet away). This would indicate the basement retail level is at least 20% lower at Aura VS CollegePark,... not really significant like they burried it. NOTE: 29 (high) steps in the PATH link between lower/basement/sub-basement of Aura and lower concourse of CollegePark,.... the only other part of the PATH where there's such a high difference in floor level within the PATH is likely at that stair/escalator between Toronto Dominion Buildings and NorthTower of RoyalBank building (under Wellington).

For comparison sake, at SheppardCentre (built 1976) the staircase between the lower concourse and upper concourse retail floors has 11 + 12 = 23 (high) steps between retail floors.

Ok.... the Aura basement retail level isn't significantly deeper than other underground retail levels that it's would be considered burried,... but it's connection to the lower concourse level of College Park shows how significantly these two levels are apart from each other,... that it requires 29 (high) steps on 3 flights of stairs.


Anyways,... due to all the restrictions of what type of retail can not go into Aura since it can't compete with those in CollegePark,..... and keeping in mind Aura zoning changes were huge and they must have paid an arm and leg in Section 37 community benefit costs to compensate for the height and density changes; where did all that Section 37 go? Some might have gone towards renovation of nearby Barbara Ann Scott Park,... but some probably went for benefits outside of this local area,.... Which is a shame because the basement retail area isn't well suited for retail,.. but probably would have done well as a local child daycare-nursery or local community centre or public library or mini-elementary school or something similar that would have complimented Barbara Ann Scott Park,... all public infrastructures that this part of the city is lacking since it was never originally designed as a high density residential area for which it is now quickly becoming,.... and this would have counted towards Section 37 Community Benefits and actually benefitted the new residents of Aura and the locals as well. Crying shame that the developer and city didn't take this route,.... instead the developer's goal was to maximize their profit by selling useless loading dock space as small Pacific Mall type retail space.

Note: the basement retail level is quite large and as you can see in the above map there's basically 3 parallel north-south route for the PATH through the basement of Aura (probably enough room for 5!),.... obviously, you only need one north-south route (with or without these PacificMall type retail), so the rest of the space could be used as Section 37 community benefits,.... BTW, the PATH connection between Aura and College Park doesn't even have to go through Aura basement retail level!,... directly to the west is Aura's P1 underground parking parking level which also serves as parking for Aura retail area and it's at a higher level than Aura basement retail level (probably 10 feet difference in floor height),... thus, it could have made a better connection with CollegePark lower concourse level since there's less variance between the two floor levels.

 

[DSC]

You can see where the Section 37 Benefits went on this City Report: http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toro...ity_benefitsreportward_all_1998to10142014.pdf
An update is at: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/pg/bgrd/backgroundfile-83196.pdf

 

[James]

With all of this considered, the big question now is what becomes of Shops at Aura in the future? Will it simply be a forever forgotten mall, empty and buried beneath this landmark condo building?

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Every market has a high-end and a low-end areas. The Shops at Aura will become the PATH's low-end retail unless things significantly change.

The Eaton Chelsea and World's Biggest Bookstore developments will connect College Park to the rest of the PATH system, through Aura (unless they built around and bypass Aura completely, like some forgotten child) so that will have an impact on things too.

 

[modernizt]

The Shops at Aura will become the PATH's low-end retail unless things significantly change.

The "Shops at Aura" won't be around anymore by the time the PATH is extended to meet them. I'll put money on it.

I would imagine a large, single use will eventually be put down there, but it's going to take a lawsuit and some restructuring from the condo board to make it happen.

 

[James]

Every market has a high-end and a low-end areas. The Shops at Aura will become the PATH's low-end retail unless things significantly change.
...

This would likely be the best case scenario.

The "Shops at Aura" won't be around anymore by the time the PATH is extended to meet them. I'll put money on it.
...

And this, unfortunately, is probably the reality of this retail space. Given the sheer lack of pedestrian traffic in this area, I'm not sure what it would take to revive this retail failure.

 

[Transportfan]

The Eaton Chelsea and World's Biggest Bookstore developments will connect College Park to the rest of the PATH system, through Aura

Do the owners of the Eaton Chelsea want PATH running through their basement? I heard the owners of the old Delta Chelsea didn't.

 

[interchange42]

In order to get the huge density increases that they are seeking at the Eaton Chelsea site, everything that the City wants will be on the table for negotiation. There would be no reason for the Chelsea site owners to refuse PATH as part of site redevelopment, (at least none that are obvious to me), as connection to the system is something that will make the space in the buildings more sellable. In the case of the Delta, retrofitting the PATH into the hotel with existing programming of the lower levels would have been hugely disruptive and expensive, and there was likely no business case for it.

Any talk above that PATH would be routed around the Aura section is misguided. Somehow the situation will be sorted out in Aura's concourse level over the coming years, and whatever it takes to fix things down there, the solution won't include doing an end-run around it with PATH through the garage levels.

42

 

[UrbanAffair]

yeah I would agree with that. If selling res condo units you can say it will be connected to the PATH and thus have access to the subways and other PATH buildings. If selling comm condos you can say it will provide needed foot traffic, especially in Winter. Just look at Aura's marketing from a few years back. I am sure that must have helped sales.

 

[officedweller]

I would imagine a large, single use will eventually be put down there, but it's going to take a lawsuit and some restructuring from the condo board to make it happen.

Agreed.

In Vancouver's Yaletown, a number of heritage buildings were renovated in the 1990s with small-sized condominiumized retail spaces being sold. They failed as retail malls, but were eventually consolidated and now have larger tenants.