[dt_toronto_geek]

When walking along Bloor Street in the evening now (even last summer) the tree canape has increased so dramatically that walking on the sidewalks after the shops are closed is rather dark, given that the illumination from the series of high mast lights is greatly blocked. I suspect there is going to have to be a re-think of the sidewalk lighting in the next year or two, perhaps a series of lower-to-the-ground lighting along the Church to Avenue Road stretch.

 

[mrgrieves]

I had assumed they would install something nice rather than the strictly utilitarian poles one sees elsewhere. I suppose it will take time before we start paying attention to these details. It's part of the progression from industrial to cosmopolitan. The culture won't make that jump in one go.

Perhaps they will have the foresight to install opulent street lighting in front of Union Station. Something tells me it's not even on their radar. Toronto's transformation remains a work in progress.

But why is Toronto still stuck in such a thrifty "industrial" mindset? It seems like it was a generation ago or more that Toronto really was this industrial, blue collar city. It's been many decades that the banks all moved their head offices here, and the city became a financial centre. It has also been the capital of Ontario for at least a hundred years

The city has studied the entire stretch of Eglinton where the LRT will go in a study called Eglinton Connects (available on the City's website). It sounds like they plan on revamping the entire length of Eglinton. Should be interesting to see how that turns out...one thing worth noting is that in many stretches they can't even plant trees because of power lines.

I think all of this begs the question why is a street like Eglinton in such bad shape in the first place. I think Toronto's most unique characteristic is all of the different neighbourhoods, its a shame they are so neglected

 

[TrickyRicky]

I think we should focus on Bloor Street Here but I feel that many people complaining about the general public or street / park realm in Toronto are not aware of the amount of progress that has been made throughout the city over the last decade or the previous historical reference points of comparison.

Because we are speaking about Bloor Street / Yorkville it is fair and reasonable to compare it's condition and design with other upscale or heavily invested streetscapes globally. However, please don't compare the best or most heavily invested streetscapes globally with random corners of Toronto. This kind of comparison is false and misleading.

 

[dahusbandofbath]

I was in Paris last month and was struck by the fact that most side walks in the city centre are black asphalt; even streets such as Rue de Rivoli, which runs along the northern edge of the Louvre. I also noticed that the side-walk paving stones on the Avenue des Champs-Élysées look a lot like the ones on Bloor St.

 

[mrgrieves]

I think we should focus on Bloor Street Here but I feel that many people complaining about the general public or street / park realm in Toronto are not aware of the amount of progress that has been made throughout the city over the last decade or the previous historical reference points of comparison.

Fair enough, based on old photos I've seen the city generally looked pretty terrible

Because we are speaking about Bloor Street / Yorkville it is fair and reasonable to compare it's condition and design with other upscale or heavily invested streetscapes globally. However, please don't compare the best or most heavily invested streetscapes globally with random corners of Toronto. This kind of comparison is false and misleading.

Probably the most similar project to Bloor Street in Toronto as very as heavy investment was the stretch of "Uptown Yonge" north of Eglinton which was done 3 or 4 years ago. Its worth noting that many of the trees were planted in those tiny concrete planters, and many of those trees are either dead, or nothing is in those planters anymore. Maybe Bloor learned from those mistakes, but it still raises the issue that even when the city invests large sums of money, the results are not what they should be. And when the city fails in certain respects, they do not fix the situation.

 

[isaidso]

But why is Toronto still stuck in such a thrifty "industrial" mindset? It seems like it was a generation ago or more that Toronto really was this industrial, blue collar city. It's been many decades that the banks all moved their head offices here, and the city became a financial centre. It has also been the capital of Ontario for at least a hundred years

The city has studied the entire stretch of Eglinton where the LRT will go in a study called Eglinton Connects (available on the City's website). It sounds like they plan on revamping the entire length of Eglinton. Should be interesting to see how that turns out...one thing worth noting is that in many stretches they can't even plant trees because of power lines.

I think all of this begs the question why is a street like Eglinton in such bad shape in the first place. I think Toronto's most unique characteristic is all of the different neighbourhoods, its a shame they are so neglected

These things usually take a few generations to occur. Toronto has come a long way in 30 years, but we'll need to wait till the generation being born now reaches their 30s till the cultural shift will be complete. Keep in mind that the people running our firms, in power at City Hall, etc. largely grew up in a Toronto that was still quite an unsophisticated place. Their world view largely dictates things still. To them, installing an attractive utility pole isn't something they've ever thought about before. They're excruciatingly pragmatic/utilitarian in their mindset because they didn't grow up surrounded by opulence/luxury.

 

[junctionist]

Generally, I'd say that Toronto's public realm is on par with most post-Communist eastern European cities (not western European), though a few are better. Prague has an excellent public realm. In the city centre, every street, even trivial side streets without any important buildings have granite sett sidewalks in mosaics. Most streets are paved in stone that's in good shape (except for important arterials that aren't pedestrianized). The streets have ornamental street lighting. The heritage buildings are consistently restored (unlike Yonge and Queen streets). Subway stations look better, with unique designs and finishes like polished stone panels. Prague is a benchmark city in this regard.

 

[renvel]

Public realm

I had assumed they would install something nice rather than the strictly utilitarian poles one sees elsewhere. I suppose it will take time before we start paying attention to these details. It's part of the progression from industrial to cosmopolitan. The culture won't make that jump in one go.

Perhaps they will have the foresight to install opulent street lighting in front of Union Station. Something tells me it's not even on their radar. Toronto's transformation remains a work in progress.

My be, because I'm originally from Europe , the degree of , I would say , elegance of street furniture & public realm in general is important to me. Toronto has a lot of good features , but the elegance & sophistication of public realm is not one of them ,what is really too bad...

 

[buildup]

All these things take not just money but time and thought. The collective energy of the city is going into towers, infrastructure upgrades and transit. Rest assured when the dust settles and the property tax revenues start to flow public realm will get some attention

 

[marsh]

All these things take not just money but time and thought. The collective energy of the city is going into towers, infrastructure upgrades and transit. Rest assured when the dust settles and the property tax revenues start to flow public realm will get some attention

I agree with you that all these things take not just not money but time and thought. The problem is when will the dust settle? The city doesn't stop growing - it will always be undergoing change (more rapid at some times then others). And property tax revenues are clearly not enought to support the infrastructure that we require so unless tax revenues magically go up I don't see how public realm will get much attention. I do think for public realm there could be more opportunity for mixed public and private funding and I know they do some of that with the new condo developments that are going up but its too peicemeal. Anyways, Bloor Street Revitalization was a big step (even though their may be some critiques) and I just hope it inspires other business strips and neighbourhoods in the downtown core to do the same.

 

[mrgrieves]

I agree with you that all these things take not just not money but time and thought. The problem is when will the dust settle? The city doesn't stop growing - it will always be undergoing change (more rapid at some times then others). And property tax revenues are clearly not enought to support the infrastructure that we require so unless tax revenues magically go up I don't see how public realm will get much attention.

Depending on who is in power at City Hall, any extra dollars coming in may just mean lower taxes and spending to remain flat. Toronto has been an affluent city for a long time, I don’t think the issue is related to more tax dollars coming in, but what money gets spent on.

I do think for public realm there could be more opportunity for mixed public and private funding and I know they do some of that with the new condo developments that are going up but its too peicemeal. Anyways, Bloor Street Revitalization was a big step (even though their may be some critiques) and I just hope it inspires other business strips and neighbourhoods in the downtown core to do the same.

I don’t know what the cost breakdown was for Bloor, but I would imagine the BIA paid a large sum of money for it. I would also imagine maintenance is more expensive and again I’m sure the BIA assumes a lot of that cost. The Bloor Street BIA is primarily multinational retailers who likely set aside funds for improvements such as this. Most of Toronto’s vibrant areas are mom and pop shops. In my opinion it should be the city assuming these investments, this must be a large expense for these type of shops.

And what about residential areas not represented by BIAs? They will continue to look shabby?

 

[junctionist]

Also, Toronto also spends next to nothing on improving residential side streets. Yet cities across North America do so, for instance burying overhead wires and installing ornamental street lighting in historic neighbourhoods.

 

[snyberTO]

Walked from Avenue Road to Yonge tonight. Very few (almost none) of the in-ground up-lights for the trees were on. Even when most were working the pedestrian zone never had enough light. It's way too dark. Someone really overestimated and/or miscalculated the impact of the tree and storefront lighting. Lighting is such an important and exciting aspect of public space - what a wasted opportunity.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Walked from Avenue Road to Yonge tonight. Very few (almost none) of the in-ground up-lights for the trees were on. Even when most were working the pedestrian zone never had enough light. It's way too dark. Someone really overestimated and/or miscalculated the impact of the tree and storefront lighting. Lighting is such an important and exciting aspect of public space - what a wasted opportunity.

I've noted this before, it's become a real problem - as in a safety problem, something that I'm sure will have to be addressed in the next year or two. Many of the in-ground lights are probably working, just extremely covered in deep foliage which is a landscaping issue that needs to be addressed as the effect of lighting up the trees is obviously lost. Sadly despite this beautiful revitalization between Church St. & Avenue Road there is absolutely *nothing* to do along this strip at night, absolutely everything is closed now after 10pm.

 

[marsh]

Having nothing to do along the strip at night can also contribute to safety issues. One thing that helped keep Bloor vibrant was Yorkville -w ith its restaurants and bars - you had people walking along Bloor going to and from Yorkville. I fear with continuing condo development, and the slow takeover of retail, that even Yorkville become dead at night.