Coolstar
Senior Member
In fact we're well off topic here.
- Thread starter Northern Light
- Start date
smallspy
Senior Member
The simple fact of the matter is that upgrading any facility while keeping it open is demonstrably more difficult and time-consuming than building something from scratch.
If building from scratch, you prevent all public access once, and build the thing, worrying only about staging in a manner that affects how the item will be built.
If something is to be built while still open, the accesses to and from the facility as well as those inside need to be kept open and made safe. Plans need to be made for the staging of the blocking off of areas and making them safe as the construction goes on elsewhere. It costs time and effort to move barriers and re-route traffic flows. Even staging of the construction itself must be done in a way to not only keep the occupants/users safe, but engineered in such a way as to ensure that the construction can be done in safe and realistic manner without adversely affecting the ongoing operations. For instance, you can't build the third floor of a building if the columns and structure up to it haven't been completed yet.
There are far more steps involved in completing the work, and in something like a transit station, far more entities involved as well.
Dan
If building from scratch, you prevent all public access once, and build the thing, worrying only about staging in a manner that affects how the item will be built.
If something is to be built while still open, the accesses to and from the facility as well as those inside need to be kept open and made safe. Plans need to be made for the staging of the blocking off of areas and making them safe as the construction goes on elsewhere. It costs time and effort to move barriers and re-route traffic flows. Even staging of the construction itself must be done in a way to not only keep the occupants/users safe, but engineered in such a way as to ensure that the construction can be done in safe and realistic manner without adversely affecting the ongoing operations. For instance, you can't build the third floor of a building if the columns and structure up to it haven't been completed yet.
There are far more steps involved in completing the work, and in something like a transit station, far more entities involved as well.
Dan
99Messier
New Member
This is why I think the solution on the Yonge line is to move the south bound tracks directly under Yonge. You move the majority of the construction to the street - where localized cut-and-cover and decking can provide a pretty isolated construction site.
For Bloor, I thought about moving the Eastbound platform directly under Bloor. Again, you move construction away from the inside of the Bay tower to the street. I don't know the exact location of tracks in this area, but I think the best I could get is a 150m radius curves to accomplish this (I don't recall what the radius is near Union Station, but I think it's similar).
Deadpool X
Senior Member
lead82
Senior Member
For the amount of money this will cost, the city and province should abandon this project. It's crazy to drop this much money for a new platform for 1 of the 4 directions at this station. $1.5B you can build a lot more. For example, why not build a dedicated LRT on Bay St from Bay Station down to Union on the street - re-purpose the HOV lane. It would cost 1/10th of this and would actually provide an alternative.
You could do a similar thing on the other downtown lines - perhaps use the money to improve Dundas and King streetcar service to enable faster connections to Bloor/Danforth. That way people now transferring at Bloor-Yonge have an alternative means to travel. Spend money to make other routes better not to marginally improve flow at a crowded station.
This construction will be a nightmare of epic proportions for 10-15years for very little improvement and a lot of sunk costs.
You could do a similar thing on the other downtown lines - perhaps use the money to improve Dundas and King streetcar service to enable faster connections to Bloor/Danforth. That way people now transferring at Bloor-Yonge have an alternative means to travel. Spend money to make other routes better not to marginally improve flow at a crowded station.
This construction will be a nightmare of epic proportions for 10-15years for very little improvement and a lot of sunk costs.
asher__jo
Active Member
The actual cost is highly speculative and the owners of Hudson's Bay are extremely eager to redevelop, so the likelihood of the project cost being cut in half is probable.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Yup. I fully expect the city to make an announcement in 6 months with a significantly reduced capital cost here.
smallspy
Senior Member
The problem with this idea is that it only resolves one of the two problems - the issue of platform capacity on the Yonge Line. Platform capacity on the B-D is now a concern as well, and this plan did nothing to fix it.
It's not completely perfect, but the TTC's current plan will go a long way towards resolving both issues.
Dan
nfitz
Superstar
One would hope that it doesn't preclude the future addition of a new southbound platform for Line 1, under Yonge (or two platforms, looking at the old drawing). That might be a cheaper job than this, with the work being shallower, and less interference with the existing station.
salsa
Senior Member
This slide from the TTC board meeting should dispel the myth from some people that the Ontario Line is a viable substitute for this project.
ARG1
Senior Member
Interesting how the results with OL seem to be better than DRL.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Interesting how one is still pushing DRL South as if it is a be all and end all that was never ever going to be extended to Eglinton (and Metrolinx is responsible for DRL North, in case one forgot - you know, the same proponent as OL). Care to compare a scenario where you have both DRL N+S to OL? I bet you the results would be broadly the same (because functionally it is broadly the same)
AoD
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Northern Light
Superstar
Nothing mysterious about it.
Relief-Line South was from Pape Stn (Line 2) only.
Where the O/L is from Eglinton.
So you're getting additional diversion away from the interchange.
Mercenary
Active Member
Btw...whatever happened to Smart Track?
From what I remember it was suppose to cost less than the upgrade to Bloor-Yonge station.
From what I remember it was suppose to cost less than the upgrade to Bloor-Yonge station.
mdu
Active Member
Never would have worked as stated by Tory.
As for today, the complete lack of connections in reasonable places (except maybe Kennedy), low frequency, and high fare with no transfer discount, all mean that a proper subway-relieving RER network is still nowhere to be seen.
As for today, the complete lack of connections in reasonable places (except maybe Kennedy), low frequency, and high fare with no transfer discount, all mean that a proper subway-relieving RER network is still nowhere to be seen.