anddan
New Member
Extracted from the sales material. Note that they haven't highlighted the usage of the land south of Bridlewood Mall.
Extracted from the sales material. Note that they haven't highlighted the usage of the land south of Bridlewood Mall.
UrbanPrincess
New Member
I worked on this development in 2008 on behalf of a citizen's group and it was very difficult to make this development feasible to the developers without the height and incorporating LEED standards. Our conclusion was almost the same.
Posts regarding purchasing units at Celebration have been moved to a new thread in the Real Estate forum.
A new dataBase listing for the building can be found here.
A new dataBase listing for the building can be found here.
AlbertC
Superstar
The next phase, High Point Condominiums @ Celebration
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Forget CityPlace. It's going to be the condos built out in the middle of nowhere with no access to adequate transit that will become the ghettos of the 21st century. Are they still trying to get up to 33s on some of these buildings?
adma
Superstar
Well, more "in kind" for the nabe. Remember that it's High-Rise Brothel Central around these parts...
taal
Senior Member
Ha! No transit, seriously ??
I'm guessing Finch E, for a single line, has one of the highest frequencies in North America ... and really for the most part, buses work here, though longer ones would be better. Frequencies off peak are very good as well.
You don't necessarily need high order transit to have good transit depending on area.
So is there going to be a lot of retail here ? I like the potential.
I'm guessing Finch E, for a single line, has one of the highest frequencies in North America ... and really for the most part, buses work here, though longer ones would be better. Frequencies off peak are very good as well.
You don't necessarily need high order transit to have good transit depending on area.
So is there going to be a lot of retail here ? I like the potential.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Trust me, as someone who grew up in this area, no one looks forward to riding on the Finch bus. To get downtown from this intersection on public transit still takes a very uncomfortable 1.5 hours. The Warden bus is basically non-existent. It is far from a connected, desirable neighbourhood.
If we're putting mid-rise into Corktown and Mount Pleasant, why would we be building high-rise at Finch and Warden? I'm all for urbanizing Scarborough, but this is not the way. This is the way for a developer to take advantage of the precedent set by the 70's high-rises, to throw in a few more on cheap land.
This is the kind of neighbourhood that epitomizes the "vertical poverty" phenomenon in Toronto, and we're letting developers continue to build this way: islands of small unit high-rise in a sea of suburban sprawl, free of any amenities.
If we're putting mid-rise into Corktown and Mount Pleasant, why would we be building high-rise at Finch and Warden? I'm all for urbanizing Scarborough, but this is not the way. This is the way for a developer to take advantage of the precedent set by the 70's high-rises, to throw in a few more on cheap land.
This is the kind of neighbourhood that epitomizes the "vertical poverty" phenomenon in Toronto, and we're letting developers continue to build this way: islands of small unit high-rise in a sea of suburban sprawl, free of any amenities.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
So let's throw in a few more high-rises. It's not quite at those Jane and Finch concentrations yet.
theflyingsquirrel
New Member
I personally think that this is not designed for people who go to downtown to work. You are lucky if you can get to downtown in 1.5h. It took me roughly 1.5h in the morning, but sometimes 2 h in the afternoon for communing.
I think this is more for the established neighbourhood in the area who want to live in a better lifestyle environment. For the new generation who want to move out from the parents but not too far from them. For those who want to get into real estate , but do not have much money to purchase a house or in more expensive areas.
However, keep in mind that this is going to be finished in 2014. Who know if the proposed subway will really be constructed on sheppard.
In regarding the warden bus. I am taking it everyday to work, so I know better than anyone else. The warden bus going south in the morning is frequent. It is like every 3 mins, there is another bus. However, if you are taking the warden bus from warden subway station, I waited one time 40 min for a bus to come.
In regarding to purchase these towers as investment, I think it is of great potential.
- If you are planning to purchase and flip, this is a perfect victim.
- free assignment
- deposit loan available. If you have 5% for deposit, you can play the game of flipping.
- There is no other good new condo in the area. If people want a new condo, they will have to purchase this one when it is done.
- Check out the demography of this area. It is mostly established families. When the kids move out but want to have dinner at their parents, this is the place to go.
- When the parents get old and all the kids have moved out already, they tend to move into condos. This is because they do not need the space anymore and it is harder for them to go up and down stairs.
- If you are planning to keep and rent, this location has a hidden potential. Subway may be built on sheppard. If you can survive in keeping this condo for 10 years. You will see the return. However, according to my calculation, you need to rent a 1 bedroom for $1500 a month to break even, while you need to rent a 2 bedrooms for $1900 to break even. People die in long run. The investment has to make sense today, not 10 years later for most people. So do you think you can make a positive cash flow?
All of you are smart, so you must see what my conclusion is going to be.
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AlbertC
Superstar
theflyingsquirrel
New Member
Today, when I pass by warden ave, I see all the celebration sign are replaced by Love condos.
I wonder are the sale for High Power almost over so they allow Love condo to take over their sign locations.
I wonder are the sale for High Power almost over so they allow Love condo to take over their sign locations.
investican
Active Member
I went to the sales office on the weekend.
Got a price list and information.
When I asked about pre-sales they got really defensive and said "...there are available units left"
The area needs a turn around and this could be a real good investment in the area.
However, I don't think they are doing too well in this development.
The mall by itself is a B Class mall. They don't really have many good tenants and they have quite a lot of turn around in their tenants.
I know Target will be moving into the Zellers in the location but this project will take a lot longer to sell.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
If you lived at Warden & Finch, you'd know that never in your life has it taken you 1.5 hours to get downtown unless the subway is shut down for some emergency, you're doing so via the night buses, or you're taking the Warden bus - which locals know sucks for getting downtown.
This site is very nearly textbook perfect for this kind of intensification. Way more amenities than you give it credit for: there's a mall, parks, schools, churches, etc., immediate access to bus routes (including the 39, a model route), and there's all kinds of stuff from office parks to hospitals in the nearby area. Maybe there'll be better transit some day...this only encourages it. But you can do a lot worse than the Finch East bus.
Mid-rises don't automatically make an area more urban. Sometimes, mid-rises can seriously compromise a suburban place's ability to become more urban by depriving it of some of the critical mass that taller towers and sheer numbers of people bring (that shouldn't happen here since there's a good number of people living at Warden & Finch, but it will affect a mid-rise area like Downtown Markham). Mid-rises can and do have cheap, small suites just like any other condo. Mid-rise doesn't mean better site plans and architecture, or that the street will become more pleasant, or that a street retail/walking culture will sprout - just look at the crap getting built on Sheppard West.
Why build high-rises at Warden & Finch? These hyper-concentrated mixed-use nodes are our suburbs' greatest assets. Without them, our city would have just vomited a few more concession blocks of pink brick detached houses across the Moraine and Escarpment, all the way to Uxbridge and Guelph. Or maybe we would have needed 20 more Regent Parks. What we have is pretty unique and awesome. Sure, it'd be nice if our suburbs were littered with more pre-war main streets with picturesque street walls and smiling couples and fair trade coffee and puppies and sunshine, but they're not and we can't reproduce them.
theflyingsquirrel
New Member
Althought I personally hate Karen Stink, look at how she back stab and the picture of her evil laughter. Pure Evil!
The extension of sheppard LTR would make it much faster to get to downtown.
Celebration is going to be finished in 2014.
And I wonder how far behind would the LTR fall.
The extension of sheppard LTR would make it much faster to get to downtown.
Celebration is going to be finished in 2014.
And I wonder how far behind would the LTR fall.