[Urban Shocker]

I'd prefer those towers built somewhere else but that's water under the bridge now. Developers are the real planners in this city and everybody knows it.

Our new chief planner, Jennifer Keesmaat, wouldn't agree - she was full of praise for the Distillery in her Q&A in the Post a few days ago:

Q: What has Toronto done well from a planning perspective and what can it improve?
A: We’ve done a really good job of attracting a significant amount of our density to our downtown and created very walkable urban places. We also have a great park system. We also are doing a really interesting job of creating dynamic, unique places through adaptive reuse, such as the Distillery District, Wychwood Barns, Evergreen Brickworks ...

To judge the success of a place in enlivening a disused former industrial site based on a photograph taken from a distant perspective hovering hundreds of feet above the site says nothing about how the place is actually experienced by those who live there, and by visitors.

 

[whatever]

As far as context goes there's also an interesting play emerging between Clear Spirit and Market Wharf. They have similar balcony treatments, albeit Clear Spirit is hard and angular (perhaps a nod to the site's industrial past?) while Market Wharf is all curves. You just barely make out the effect in the above picture, but it's much more pronounced in person

 

[alklay]

Mid and low rise residential buildings, much like surrounding Canary District (where they are not repeating this mistake) Esplanade and St. Lawrence Market area (not to mention the Distillery District itself, would have been more appropriate and respectful. These towers are nothing more than a testimony to developer profits.

And Keesmaat was speaking of the reuse of the three areas, not praising the use of point towers over mid-rise residential (and thankfully Wychwood Barns and Evergreen Brickworks have not been touched by condo point towers).

 

[Urban Shocker]

Neither the Distillery, Wychwood nor Evergreen were unplanned developments, and given the appropriate diversity of forms employed in each site she's clearly not praising one form, or solution, above the others.

 

[fouronesix]

Neither the Distillery, Wychwood nor Evergreen were unplanned developments, and given the appropriate diversity of forms employed in each site she's clearly not praising one form, or solution, above the others.

But all private sector developments are planned in the sense of the word that you are employing. McMasions and EFIS-covered stacked townhouses are planned. Where does that leave us? Development is generally undertaken in a rational (i.e. means-ends) manner?

And given that she's not clearly praising an "appropriate diversity of forms", the only way what she said could be construed as praising point towers in the Distillery District is in the sense that the funding of adaptive re-use was only possible through cross-subsidization by residential unit sales, and that the number of units needed to fund both adaptive re-use and make the venture profitable demanded point towers.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Well, foreonesix, the Distillery is clearly more than alklay's attempt to reduce it to: "These towers are nothing more than a testimony to developer profits." They're a testimony to what was planned and designed, for instance, and the connection to Wychwood and Evergreeen is equally tenuous since those developments serve different purposes at different locations and aren't interchangeable in form - his: "Wychwood Barns and Evergreen Brickworks have not been touched by condo point towers."

As far as context goes there's also an interesting play emerging between Clear Spirit and Market Wharf. They have similar balcony treatments, albeit Clear Spirit is hard and angular (perhaps a nod to the site's industrial past?) while Market Wharf is all curves. You just barely make out the effect in the above picture, but it's much more pronounced in person

Clewespotters can look around town at how aA have made their mark on the skyline over the past decade, with their residential buildings, and see both similarities among their point towers and differences from the form at other sites - MoZo, District Lofts, 20 Niagara being good examples of the latter. They're nothing if not versatile, and don't take the "one size fits all" approach.

 

[Torontovibe]

Mid and low rise residential buildings, much like surrounding Canary District (where they are not repeating this mistake) Esplanade and St. Lawrence Market area (not to mention the Distillery District itself, would have been more appropriate and respectful. These towers are nothing more than a testimony to developer profits.

And Keesmaat was speaking of the reuse of the three areas, not praising the use of point towers over mid-rise residential (and thankfully Wychwood Barns and Evergreen Brickworks have not been touched by condo point towers).

Exactly! There is something to be said for a little continuity. If we mix tall towers, mid-rise and low-rise in every district, all neighbourhoods are going to look and feel too much alike. Look what's happening in the Entertainment District, with a crazy mix of densities. I much prefer different districts to have a distance look and massing. Different neighbourhoods should not only look different but feel different too. The Distillery would have had a much more authentic look and feel if all those towers were mid-rise. I would have kept them 10 to 20 storeys. Those tall towers are just too typical Toronto for me. The same bad planning is happening in Liberty Village, which should also be restricted to high density mid-rises.

Areas like The Distillery and Liberty Village are special neighbourhoods that required strict controls on what should have been built. I am very unhappy that the city allowed developers to change the character of both neighbourhoods. They both could have been so much better with just a few simple restrictions. I'm not saying they are disasters, I'm just saying I think they could have been so much better if they kept the industrial aesthetic and a mid-rise density/massing. I wish this city was a lot tougher on developers but sadly, I guess $$$ is more important than creating a great city.

 

[Red October]

The Great Man's condominium building spires punctuate the skyline of 21st century Toronto as distinctively and delightfully as Sir Christopher Wren's church spires announced themselves on London's skyline three hundred years ago.

I like Clear Spirit too, but you're really comparing glass condo #19920 to St. Paul's Cathedral?

You really are completely insane..

 

[Urban Shocker]

I like Clear Spirit too, but you're really comparing glass condo #19920 to St. Paul's Cathedral?

You really are completely insane..

... well, you should know.

I wasn't comparing anything to the Cathedral. Rather, the way in which The Great Man has remade our skyline with His distinctive point towers - which are repititions of the same set of proportions, with modifications - bears comparison with Wren's transformation of London's skyline with his churches, and their spires. Clewes, and all His works, exist at the intersection of opportunity ( our population boom, and the need to build accommodation ... ) and talent. Wren, similarly, came along at the right time, in a London that was rebuilding after the Great Fire, and where the church authorities needed new places of worship. E.J. Lennox did a similar thing to Clewes over a century ago, during the late Victorian construction and population boom, with his chunky, Husky Boy office buildings and churches.

 

[Urban Shocker]

And Keesmaat was speaking of the reuse of the three areas, not praising the use of point towers over mid-rise residential (and thankfully Wychwood Barns and Evergreen Brickworks have not been touched by condo point towers).

She talks of "creating dynamic, unique places through adaptive reuse, such as the Distillery District, Wychwood Barns, Evergreen Brickworks" so she's obviously dealing with places that exist in the form that they exist in. Her three examples express the idea that a range of solutions exist - each is unique.

 

[syn]

Well, foreonesix, the Distillery is clearly more than alklay's attempt to reduce it to: "These towers are nothing more than a testimony to developer profits." They're a testimony to what was planned and designed, for instance, and the connection to Wychwood and Evergreeen is equally tenuous since those developments serve different purposes at different locations and aren't interchangeable in form - his: "Wychwood Barns and Evergreen Brickworks have not been touched by condo point towers."

You must love 1 St. Thomas and Trump Tower - both thouroughly planned, approved by the city and serving different purposes at different locations.

 

[Urban Shocker]

1 St. Thomas and Trump are mediocre designs, at best.

 

[Tewder]

Areas like The Distillery and Liberty Village are special neighbourhoods that required strict controls on what should have been built...

That's just the point, the DD wasn't a neighbourhood. It was a derelict industrial site! The addition of the towers adds density and residential to the mix, helping in the creating of a neighbourhood...

I agree with US on this. Low rise would have been a way to go, obviously, but I like the drama of the towers, the contrast of the modern/new with the heritage, and the way the towers announce the district from afar yet tie it into the rest of the city through the leitmotif of aA's design.

 

[someMidTowner]

This evening from Pinewood Studios

 

[syn]

1 St. Thomas and Trump are mediocre designs, at best.

They went through the same process as the Distillery District condos. They were approved by both the city and the developers. They're both successful projects, a testimony to what was planned and designed.