MTown said:
Is building new crap (and I mean crap!) the economic answer to what ails the business community there? I'm no expert but that sounds like bullshit to me. Tear down the old, replace it with new and expect business to start booming again. I'm no economist but I'm fairly certain that that's not how it works.
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I can see how the decrepit state of these buildings would be an economic barrier to entry into business on the strip. This is especially true in a smaller town like Brantford-- the demand for shops simply isn't as high as it is on downtown Toronto streets. That said, I don't see how tearing them down is any more economical than offering grants for refurbishing the buildings. Given that there are places like MyThai trying to make a go of it indicates that there is at least some demand. This is a lazy, cop-out answer to a problem that's been solved many times before.
 
That said, I don't see how tearing them down is any more economical than offering grants for refurbishing the buildings.
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The problem is there's no money to fix up the buildings. And if they were fixed up would there be businesses willing to move in that could afford the rent?

Frankly, at the end of the day, its a lot cheaper to tear down these buildings and replace with a big box.
 
Presumably the rents wouldn't be that expensive given the current conditions there, which might provide opportunities for small independent/artisan type buisinesses. Also there are usually provincial and federal grants available for renovating historic properties.

What's needed here is vision, pure and simple, which seems to be lacking from a council that just seems to want to avoid any headaches altogether by knocking the heritage buildings down and waiting for some developper, any developper, to come along and build anything. Many smaller towns have had success in revitalizing their communities by attracting visitors and small businesses. Brantford already has many attractions to start with that could be capitalized on, as has already been stated. This whole issue just stinks of corruption.
 
adma said:
Though within a UT context, I think a lot of that rip-it-down-and-start-over sentiment is less on behalf of something Disney/New Urbanist than a kind of Tyler Brule-meets-OMA-esque opposite number, i.e. "international" metropoli wouldn't put up with this decrepit anachronism; why should we?
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I don't really disagree with this, I was just noting what would likely happen if these historic blocks are demolished and replaced with anything remotely 'in keeping' with what was demolished...I do agree that there's more of an urge to demolish and start over (the supposed imperative of the 'modern city,' perhaps) than there is a craving for more Disney/NU (which would almost require a higher, even if feigned, commitment to heritage and quaintness across the board, something seen only sporadically in Brantford). Brantford and Yonge Street could both go a different route and build more city-busting concrete bunkers, 70s-style. With Brantford, the YMCA teaming up with the universities seems like a recipe for concrete bunker disaster, like U of T's athletic centre, but I'm assuming that they'll go with something closer to the new development across the street in ShonTron's pic.

It makes sense to throw up some ersatz Victorian commercial buildings in a place like old Main Street in Markham, where you're filling in a gap or two, but it makes no sense to demolish a real block to make room for an ersatz replacement.
 
As bad as this will be, maybe in the aftermath of this, other Ontario towns and cities will have an important lesson: if you raze it, nobody will come. They are nuts to think that if they raze this thing, they will anything other than a handful of big box stores.

I understand the challenge. Small retailers aren't going to set up in a rundown street. And large retailers don't want to deal with old buildings or even just their facades. And residents are probably tired after decades of looking at these rundown buildings. They aren't going to buy that the heritage is worth anything, because the truth is that nobody cared until they said they were going to raze them. It doesn't make their choice any less wrong. But it's important to understand where they are coming from. Ideally, what they could have done was partnered with some kind of civic institution (like WLU) instead of the commercial sector to refurbish the space and bring vibrancy back to this area. Maybe the city could even move some of its offices there.

What there really needs to be is stronger provincial and federal legislation on this stuff and a bit of support to help towns make the best of these heritage buildings.
 
As has been mentioned, Niagara Falls is giving it a go. That is, encouraging business to move back to its historical core rather than raze the strip and build a shitty stucco replacement street/parking lot.

I guess Brantford's mayor could cry about not having as many tourists and hotels to feed the city some money but still. Cop-out is right.

I was in Niagara Falls over the holidays for four days and noticed the programme they have in place there in their downtown. Does anyone here know more about it? I'd be interested to see what it's about so I could see if it'd be possible to do something similar in Brantford.
 
Good thought, MTown, I was recalling that but I couldn't remember where it was. I did some digging:
http://www.niagarafalls.ca/business/community_improvement_plans/downtown_cip.asp

NF's Downtown Revitalization Project is based on the Community Improvement Plan that was drawn up for the area a little while ago. Included in the program are three grant options: a Revitalization Grant, which appears to be a financial guard against tax increases from higher property assessment, Commercial Building Facade Improvement Grant, which applies to both interior and exterior, and the Residential Loan Program, which provides a 0% interest loan to developers to promote the conversion/construction of residential units in the downtown. No indication of the monetary amounts available, but this Niagara Falls example looks to be pretty comprehensive. Proof that it's been done before, all it takes is a little vision and leadership.

The problem is there's no money to fix up the buildings. And if they were fixed up would there be businesses willing to move in that could afford the rent?.
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The fact of the matter is, if Brantford's council wanted to save these, they could. They could find the money, the policy, and the citizen support to salvage these buildings. High rents would be the last concern, I would think.
 
kEiThZ said:
As bad as this will be, maybe in the aftermath of this, other Ontario towns and cities will have an important lesson: if you raze it, nobody will come. They are nuts to think that if they raze this thing, they will anything other than a handful of big box stores.
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I agree with you, Keithz, but I think the problem is that many cities have already razed neighbourhoods and nobody came. Unfortunately the lesson doesn't seem to have been learned in some quarters.

One possibility for this stretch is an approach that has been tried in a number of American spots (plus Niagara Falls): a single developer buys the whole retail strip and then leases the stores out as a kind of outdoor mall. Chains are recruited as anchors. It's far from ideal but it's far better than mass-demolition.
 
Everyone: What would it take to save the row of buildings in question?
Can a company or well-heeled individual step in to save the day?

A thought of mine: Why not get someone like Wayne Gretzky to step in and use a little of his fortune to help preserve these buildings in his hometown and in return the City of Brantford could get a museum
dedicated to the most famous native of our lifetimes: How would "The Wayne Gretzky Museum of Brantford" sound? based on his life and Hockey in general in Southern Ontario?

Joni Mitchell said it best here: You don't really know what you have had until it's gone - never to return again. That area probably will never be the same...will a parking lot be worth losing these historic buildings? - I say NO!

Opinion by Long Island Mike
 
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As you know 41 historic buildings on the South Side of Colborne Street (most 5-8 storeys) are ALL target for DEMOLITION VERY SOON.
Within them the LONGEST STRETCH OF PRE-CONFEDERATION buildings REMAINING IN CANADA. The surrounding buildings are not much older.
Once we lose them ALL, we will have lost A HUGE CHUNK OF BRANTFORD'S HISTORY, ONTARIO'S HISTORY, AND CANADA'S HISTORY.

Brantford was an important Canadian industrial center for the first half of the 20th Century, and was once the THIRD LARGEST CITY IN ONTARIO.
Many of these buildings are the reason for that. Many of them date back to the earliest days of Brantford and are ALL built on the OLDEST part of Brantford.


We have history,
we are destroying history,
while destroying history,
we are making history.

There is no deeper irony than that.

PLEASE HELP US SAVE OUR BUILT HERITAGE!! Sign the Petition?
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/savethesouthside/


Please join; Save the South Side of Colborne Street! (1600 members and counting!!!!)
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?v=info&ref=ts&gid=264835224286


VISUAL REMINDER OF WHAT WE STAND TO LOSE
http://www.flickr.com/photos/autumnsangria/collections/72157623298893981/

Interior Photos.
Exterior Photos.
Photos from our Past.

- A Brantford resident (born and raised) who is not riding on the coat tails of tremendous lies.
Searching for the truth, and exposing the lies.
 
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MarieJ,

Are you sure that Brantford was the third largest city in Ontario? I mean, I always thought that Toronto, Hamilton and Ottawa had a virtual lock on this statistic (maybe throw Kingston in for Ottawa, pre-Confed).
 
Hipster Duck said:
MarieJ,

Are you sure that Brantford was the third largest city in Ontario? I mean, I always thought that Toronto, Hamilton and Ottawa had a virtual lock on this statistic (maybe throw Kingston in for Ottawa, pre-Confed).
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It is in our History Books.
I did not believe it at first either, but it was all over our History Books and anything dating back to the first days of Brantford.
It was because we had the canal and the railway, and the street cars.
 
He came, they rejected.

A wealthy London, Ontario heritage developer visited our city council meeting on Tuesday February 16th (full meeting video available online).
He was allowed to explore the buildings for a few minutes each some while before the meeting that night.

He showed a presentation to our city council and anyone at the meeting and watching from home, that many of the buildings he has restored, preserved, repurposed, and rehabilitated, many of them are over hundreds of years older than any of our 41 buildings, and they were all in far worse condition than any of ours. Perhaps even far worse of a state of decay and neglect than the Lister Block was.

He owns many of the buildings he restores to ensure that they are kept in top condition, and never again neglected. He does not own them all though.

This very same developer is known all over Canada, the US, Europe, etc. He has made his passion for old buildings become his life, his career.

This very same man said he can save SOME of our buildings. He promised commitment to our city, to Laurier, the Y. etc. that he would save some of our buildings while working with them so that they can still have their goal of expanding to our downtown core.

This man, and the Realtor who came with him, and the author, radio host and long time columnist for London Free Press, between all three men were allowed 15 minutes to speak.

The heritage developer was not only rejected, he was insulted by one of our city councillors, before he left our city for what will likely be the first and final time.

The very same man who has given over millions of his own money to non profits, and the same man who has litteraly NO DEBT.
Wanted, believed, and promised he could save some of our 41 historic buildings, and was REJECTED and INSULTED, and told it was "too late" and that he should have come to them years ago.

Funny thing is, our city has NEVER owned all 41 buildings until 2010.
The plan has always been as our own councillors say; Expropriate all 40 buildings (they already owned the Theatre) + Demolish all 41 buildings + Pant ryegrass + Consult citizens after.
 
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