wopchop said:
Yes, it's a disgrace that we're going to allow people to work, live, and play in prime downtown real estate. I hope they all go straight to hell.
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There is more than enough land in the GTA to build places to work and reside. What next? Should we pave over and build six storey suburban office buildings and six storey condo towers on the Toronto Islands ? High Park ? Exhibition Place ? The Beaches ? There are plenty of vacant lots, and thousands of acres of under utilized land in the GTA! Just look along the subway lines along Bloor and Danforth. Look at every major intersection in Scarborough, North York. All those strip malls and suburban malls! People need interesting places to visit and things to do - not just places to live and buy falafels! You're the type who would tear down the Eiffel Tower to build a Walmart so the Parisians can buy more cheap clothing!
 
I don't considering spending millions on parks such as Sugar Beach and Sherbourne Commons "tearing down Eiffel Tower to build a Walmart", more like the other way around. And unlike Toronto Islands and High Park, the waterfront had historically been used for industrial purposes. Besides, the space has never been as interesting and well visited as it has been now.

Not sure what that bit about falafel came from - but quite frankly, isn't that what the Harbourfront food festivals are about?

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
I don't considering spending millions on parks such as Sugar Beach and Sherbourne Commons "tearing down Eiffel Tower to build a Walmart", more like the other way around. And unlike Toronto Islands and High Park, the waterfront had historically been used for industrial purposes. Besides, the space has never been as interesting and well visited as it has been now.

Not sure what that bit about falafel came from - but quite frankly, isn't that what the Harbourfront food festivals are about?

AoD
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The Beach is fine, the park is nice, the boardwalk is very nice - it's the Corus Building and the GBC building I have a problem with. They are out of place. Both buildings, while very nice, should've been situated elsewhere. I just think this huge tract of land should've been used to serve and provide entertainment to all 5 million in the GTA, not just 4000 lucky people who will reside there, 1000 fortunate people who work at Corus and 4000 students who'll have to commute to and from there every day. The park, beach and boardwalk will just be used by the aforementioned and a few locals. But no one is going to commute from Scarborough to see this beach or park. It could've been so much more!

Yes! It was industrial land! But then again, City Place was Railway property! The area to the north, which is being developed was also industrial land. Liberty Village was industrial land. So was Harbourfront. But that doesn't mean it can't be turned in to something entertaining! Las Vegas was a desert and Disney World a swamp at one point.

The falafel comment was in regard to that there seems to be so many of those fast food outlets wherever you go!
 
I agree it might have been nice to have all the land south of Queens Quay as a Millennium Park of sorts, but that possibility really didn't exist considering what had already been built in the past. The plan to create a boardwalk along the entire waterfront creates the access that in some respects is taken away by office buildings and condos being there. To some degree the idea that everything south of a street should be park is auto-centric... once you get out of the car does it matter where the park starts if you can walk there. Really urban environments are best explored on foot.
 
fred said:
But no one is going to commute from Scarborough to see this beach or park.
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Past two summers we have hosted people from out of province/country at our home....both years we made Sugar Beach and area part of our "tour of the GTA"...both sets of groups absolutely loved what they already saw there and stated (in their broken English) "really want to come back here when the area is done"....our commute to is a bit farther than Scarborough....on neither ocassion were we the only obvious 'visitors' to the area and, remember, it is still a work in progress.....I disagree, this will be a significant draw for people all around the GTA and beyond...especially when those buildings you mention are fully animated an there are "resident" people in the area full time all the time.
 
TOareaFan said:
..I disagree, this will be a significant draw for people all around the GTA and beyond...especially when those buildings you mention are fully animated an there are "resident" people in the area full time all the time.
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Im with you on this one....unless everything south of Queens Quay became parkland, the new dwellers (15.000+) moving in to that part of the lakefront will be running the show and believing its their god-given duty to run their backyard.....I say, enjoy it while you can
Im sticking to the area between Coronation Park and Sunnyside, a lot more fun.
 
While Millennium Park is spectacular, I think if WFT sticks to plan, Toronto will have something just as unique in Lake Ontario Park. Add to this, an unbroken waterfront trail from the Humber to the bluffs and beyond and our waterfront will be pretty amazing and diverse in its uses.
 
fred said:
The Beach is fine, the park is nice, the boardwalk is very nice - it's the Corus Building and the GBC building I have a problem with. They are out of place. Both buildings, while very nice, should've been situated elsewhere. I just think this huge tract of land should've been used to serve and provide entertainment to all 5 million in the GTA, not just 4000 lucky people who will reside there, 1000 fortunate people who work at Corus and 4000 students who'll have to commute to and from there every day. The park, beach and boardwalk will just be used by the aforementioned and a few locals. But no one is going to commute from Scarborough to see this beach or park. It could've been so much more!
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I can sympathize with the idea that all the land south of Queen's Quay should be public open space, but I really like what they've done with the Corus Quay area. People from all over the GTA do come to Sugar Beach and it was packed last time I was there in the summer. It's an amazing public space and while the Corus building isn't a masterpiece, it does interact with the public space really well. This isn't the same mistake as the Harbourfront towers between Yonge and York.
 
fred said:
But no one is going to commute from Scarborough to see this beach or park.
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I live in Scarborough, upper Cliffcrest area at Brimley Rd. I went for my first bike ride of the season on Wednesday. Maybe I'm not the typical Scarborough person, not being a long-time resident or homeowner here, being someone who likes the downtown and is interested in the development there, and being someone who thinks LRT is appropriate on Eglinton East, but on my bike ride Wednesday I commuted through Corus Quay, after stopping by the West Donlands to check that out. Cycling down Queens Quay I often detour through the public areas along the waterfront at Sugar Beach, just as I do at Harbourfront. As I was moving along the edge of Sherbourne Common I passed a couple other guys on bikes talking to each other about how the area will really be something in a few years. Seemed like they appreciated the mixed-use approach, as do I. I like that the development is bringing different populations (media workers, students, residents) to animate the area. I don't know how many people in Scarborough commute to High Park. I wonder how many of your typical angry retired Scarborough 'taxpayers' ever visit Scarborough treasures like Guildwood, Rouge Park, or Bluffers Park. A small percentage, I'd guess, unless they have a dog that needs to be walked.
 
"Yes, It's an improvement over what was there before - but only JUST! It's generally disappointing and a far cry from what it could've been! Corus would be an OK building if it were located in Markham, but Not on this prime, downtown, waterfront location!! GBC would be an OK building if it were located closer to Casa Loma Campus, but NOT on this prime, downtown, waterfront location!! I would've rather seen something that everyone in Toronto and tourists alike would enjoy and be able to participate in, like Harbourfront, or entertainment venues, or a new Casino, or even to have preserved this land in hopes of getting the 2024 Olympics! The location would've been a great selling point to the IOC! But what they've done to this prime, downtown, waterfront location is nothing to gush about, but rather be ashamed and disgusted! I hope there is a special place in the depths of hell reserved for all those that were involved in this disgrace!"

I disagree with all your lament - except the part about "being a far cry from what it could have been" because that's true about everything. everywhere. What we have here is a great natural environment that will have appeal 12 months of the year (I am sure your visions of green spaces are during idyllic wealther). Extrordinary mixed use:

  • A college campus
  • multi-media corporation
  • a new linear park
  • sugar beach
  • hopefully an iconic condo by Safdie
  • a boardwalk with arguably the best terrace/patio in the city
  • industrial port facilities
  • planned conversion of Lakeshore into a tree-lined boulevard

What more can you want? You seem to be pining for Coney Island or another Canadian Exhibition - did you even say Casino? Have you seen how morose and despressing Casino environs are? All that is misssing is some retail, but that will follow.
In my view, this might just turn out to be model other cities will emulate - providing it achieves critical mass.
 
But what they've done to this prime, downtown, waterfront location is nothing to gush about, but rather be ashamed and disgusted! I hope there is a special place in the depths of hell reserved for all those that were involved in this disgrace!"

hahahaha... seriously, that was a great rant. I could imagine the spittle on the keyboard! Totally ridiculous.

I went for a drive along the Gardiner (Carlaw to the CNE), then back on QQ today. (Aside -- Pier 27 is growing by leaps and bounds!) The idiocy about 'blocking the view' is patently ridiculous. The view from the Gardiner across Sherbourne Commons/GBC/Corus is not blocked -- you can still see the islands. Monde will be on the other side of the park, and has views of the harbour and islands across the Commons as well. Market Square is too far west and St. Lawrence too short -- in short, Corus blocks the view of NOBODY.

As for the idea that 'nobody'll go there 'cause it's not Millenium Park' is also silly. Against the Grain does great business already. The biking/strolling/Sugar Beach suntanners on a beautiful March weekend last weekend was huge -- even with the fog this weekend there was plenty of foot traffic. Once the campus opens next September, and despite the fact there is construction everywhere, this will be as busy as any place in the core. Who would have thought that 5 years ago?
 
I think this info probably belongs here since the current temporary District Energy building is immediatey north of Corus:

This from WT CEO's Report to their March Board meeting:

District Energy
Waterfront Toronto has successfully completed the transfer of the interim District Energy (“DE”) plant/operations to Enwave on March 9, 2012. Responsibility for providing future heating and cooling under the Energy Service Agreement for the Corus Building has been transferred to Enwave as the DE provider.
Under commercially reasonable efforts, Enwave will complete the on-site plant and close the interim plant by November 1, 2012 to eliminate any ongoing operating losses. Future commercial development of the site could begin as early as 2013/14.
 
fred said:
The Beach is fine, the park is nice, the boardwalk is very nice - it's the Corus Building and the GBC building I have a problem with. They are out of place. Both buildings, while very nice, should've been situated elsewhere. I just think this huge tract of land should've been used to serve and provide entertainment to all 5 million in the GTA, not just 4000 lucky people who will reside there, 1000 fortunate people who work at Corus and 4000 students who'll have to commute to and from there every day. The park, beach and boardwalk will just be used by the aforementioned and a few locals. But no one is going to commute from Scarborough to see this beach or park. It could've been so much more!

Yes! It was industrial land! But then again, City Place was Railway property! The area to the north, which is being developed was also industrial land. Liberty Village was industrial land. So was Harbourfront. But that doesn't mean it can't be turned in to something entertaining! Las Vegas was a desert and Disney World a swamp at one point.

The falafel comment was in regard to that there seems to be so many of those fast food outlets wherever you go!
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I agree with what you said that prime waterfront locations should be reserved for more interesting public space for the enjoyment of Toronto residents and visitors. However, it is still Toronto we are living in, and whenever there is a big lot, they think "condos" (under the name of "communities" or "neighbourhoods")

There are plenty of empty space even in downtown that can be used for condos, and I don't know why planners have their eyes on the rare waterfront, as if those building 30 years ago along central waterfront are not disastrous enough.

Will we have something as great as Millennium park? No, apparently Torontoians think it is a waste of money (even central park is "too expensive to maintain"), and our cheap Harbourfront Centre is on the other hand a precious piece of treasure.
 
U know what they did withparisin the late 1800s???? They gutted it out hence today's Paris. Let's do the same thing with toronto's waterfront.
 
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