^Exactly. There are plenty of sites remaining in Yorkville that can be repurposed to build tall. Would it be "cool to have an 85 storey tower here"? Sure, but then reality sets in. If they felt they could feasibly build 85 storeys of condos or rentals, I am sure they would. There are economical and physical limitations and risk issues. Don't worry there will be other sites that will go higher in the future. Also isn't this phase 1 of 2? We don't know what is coming for the Yonge side do we?
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
i42 suggest some kind of lower-scaled hotel component. You probably can't fit a serious tower there without running afoul of the 25m separation distance with the CIBC tower in any case.

AoD
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Interesting. I did a calc going about 80ft (~25m) north from the back of the CIBC building, which leaves about 60 ft for buildable length going north to Cumberland, incl setback from the street. Is that enough space for a significant tower? Guess time will tell.
 
Toronto is building lots of tall stuff. Developing Yorkville is about more than height. The area is already getting some very tall buildings, but it's never been height that brings people here.
 
Uptowner said:
The tall towers are no longer being proposed. It now maxes out at 54 storeys with a stump addition to follow some time in the future. I should warn you that if you express any disappointment at this turn of events you will have 10 forumers jump down your throat outraged you would question city council or city bureaucrats.
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The "city" had nothing to do with the decision by a private sector entity to mitigate risks and propose a 54s rental tower. Given the federal tax structure with respect the GST treatment of rental housing, lack of ability to defer capital gains & recaptured depreciation deductions upon the disposition of rental properties and the "big one" on federal treatment of capital cost allowances... building purpose built rental is extremely risky which is why we see very little purpose built rental in the city. This "54 storey stump" as you've called it and suggested that city council or bureaucratic meddling has caused a reduction in height is a strange analysis given the fact that the proponent is proposing to construct the tallest ever purpose built rental tower in the city (Manulife built in 1972 is if I remember correctly currently the tallest purpose built rental tower in the city).

I'm going to suggest that for most proposals within the downtown core (and by extension the Yorkville area) that while planning context is critical (and the context here is two neighbouring taller approved buildings than what is being proposed on this site - they could have proposed and likely secured approvals for a taller building if they wanted to - they chose not to...) financial feasibility, return on investment and acceptable risks have far more to do with the proposal that you are so disappointed in than meddling bureaucrats. I would again point out that the proposal is purpose built rental - frankly I'm surprised they would propose such a large project given the federal tax laws surrounding investment in new purpose-built rental housing - this is a fairly high risk proposal as this scale.
 
Waterloo_Guy said:
Toronto is building lots of tall stuff. Developing Yorkville is about more than height. The area is already getting some very tall buildings, but it's never been height that brings people here.
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That statement provides no support as to why a 50s tower is an undesirable outcome.

AoD
 
Mike in TO said:
The "city" had nothing to do with the decision by a private sector entity to mitigate risks and propose a 54s rental tower. Given the federal tax structure with respect the GST treatment of rental housing, lack of ability to defer capital gains & recaptured depreciation deductions upon the disposition of rental properties and the "big one" on federal treatment of capital cost allowances... building purpose built rental is extremely risky which is why we see very little purpose built rental in the city. This "54 storey stump" as you've called it and suggested that city council or bureaucratic meddling has caused a reduction in height is a strange analysis given the fact that the proponent is proposing to construct the tallest ever purpose built rental tower in the city (Manulife built in 1972 is if I remember correctly currently the tallest purpose built rental tower in the city).

I'm going to suggest that for most proposals within the downtown core (and by extension the Yorkville area) that while planning context is critical (and the context here is two neighbouring taller approved buildings than what is being proposed on this site - they could have proposed and likely secured approvals for a taller building if they wanted to - they chose not to...) financial feasibility, return on investment and acceptable risks have far more to do with the proposal that you are so disappointed in than meddling bureaucrats. I would again point out that the proposal is purpose built rental - frankly I'm surprised they would propose such a large project given the federal tax laws surrounding investment in new purpose-built rental housing - this is a fairly high risk proposal as this scale.
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As always Mike, your patience and erudition is most appreciated.
 
Mike in TO said:
The "city" had nothing to do with the decision by a private sector entity to mitigate risks and propose a 54s rental tower. Given the federal tax structure with respect the GST treatment of rental housing, lack of ability to defer capital gains & recaptured depreciation deductions upon the disposition of rental properties and the "big one" on federal treatment of capital cost allowances... building purpose built rental is extremely risky which is why we see very little purpose built rental in the city. This "54 storey stump" as you've called it and suggested that city council or bureaucratic meddling has caused a reduction in height is a strange analysis given the fact that the proponent is proposing to construct the tallest ever purpose built rental tower in the city (Manulife built in 1972 is if I remember correctly currently the tallest purpose built rental tower in the city).

I'm going to suggest that for most proposals within the downtown core (and by extension the Yorkville area) that while planning context is critical (and the context here is two neighbouring taller approved buildings than what is being proposed on this site - they could have proposed and likely secured approvals for a taller building if they wanted to - they chose not to...) financial feasibility, return on investment and acceptable risks have far more to do with the proposal that you are so disappointed in than meddling bureaucrats. I would again point out that the proposal is purpose built rental - frankly I'm surprised they would propose such a large project given the federal tax laws surrounding investment in new purpose-built rental housing - this is a fairly high risk proposal as this scale.
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This. Plus 100. This isn't SimCity.
 
Mike in TO said:
The "city" had nothing to do with the decision by a private sector entity to mitigate risks and propose a 54s rental tower. Given the federal tax structure with respect the GST treatment of rental housing, lack of ability to defer capital gains & recaptured depreciation deductions upon the disposition of rental properties and the "big one" on federal treatment of capital cost allowances... building purpose built rental is extremely risky which is why we see very little purpose built rental in the city. This "54 storey stump" as you've called it and suggested that city council or bureaucratic meddling has caused a reduction in height is a strange analysis given the fact that the proponent is proposing to construct the tallest ever purpose built rental tower in the city (Manulife built in 1972 is if I remember correctly currently the tallest purpose built rental tower in the city).

I'm going to suggest that for most proposals within the downtown core (and by extension the Yorkville area) that while planning context is critical (and the context here is two neighbouring taller approved buildings than what is being proposed on this site - they could have proposed and likely secured approvals for a taller building if they wanted to - they chose not to...) financial feasibility, return on investment and acceptable risks have far more to do with the proposal that you are so disappointed in than meddling bureaucrats. I would again point out that the proposal is purpose built rental - frankly I'm surprised they would propose such a large project given the federal tax laws surrounding investment in new purpose-built rental housing - this is a fairly high risk proposal as this scale.
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Well, if you have absolutely reliable information that "the city" [obviously used synecdochically (sorry, Pw20, for that word) so no need for you to put it in quotes] had nothing to do with this change then, once again, I admit that my concern was misplaced. To me losing even one floor due to the city is painful but I do realize I am in the minority in that respect.

As for the rental aspect that is all very interesting. I mean that sincerely and also thank you for taking the time to explain all of that. I want to be clear I am not on here to "win" a debate or score cheap points. I was (am) truly under the impression that the city does want to limit the height of some buildings in the area/downtown like Casa III, 50 Bloor W, 501 Yong and many others.

To try and sum up my skepticism I will ask a question. Is it really the opinion of well-informed UTers that building heights in this city would be just as tall if there never existed an OMB (or equivalent) and all powers were in the hands of the city? If that is really the case I will defer to your better judgment but, I suspect, remain unconvinced myself.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Hmm, the podium doesn't look like an entirely new build per se - are they reusing part of the existing building/basement? The lobby for the tower looks stunning - first use of a glass wall of its type in a residential project?

AoD
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1 Bloor East will have it as well
 
Uptowner said:
To try and sum up my skepticism I will ask a question. Is it really the opinion of well-informed UTers that building heights in this city would be just as tall if there never existed an OMB (or equivalent) and all powers were in the hands of the city? If that is really the case I will defer to your better judgment but, I suspect, remain unconvinced myself.
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Short answer is without the OMB, no the building heights would not be as tall (but there would likely be another mechanism to ensure provincial policy is adhered to in the planning process)... longer answer would involve ward by ward local politics (i.e. Kyle Rae often pushed for taller buildings while Michael Walker would oppose anything and everything if more then a couple residents called to complain). Some buildings might lose a couple floors here and there, but others gain a few floors here and there through CofA applications. You've articulated disappointment that you perceive the planning department to be fighting against height, but I'd encourage you to follow a few ratepayer organization comments on other social media and they would articulate that they think the planning department is totally out of control in terms of what they are recommending for approval (i.e. they think developers are in control) - lots of different perspectives out there.
 
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