[Bureaucromancer]

To be honest, I now find the way the TTC lists timings and schedules as being very confusing. I'm too old school. Show me a full schedule charted on 'x' and 'y' axes.

I could write a LOT about this, but this freaking obsession with hiding useful schedules in favour of trip planners "next departure" and schedules for particular stops exists all through transportation, has for as long as the internet has existed and NEEDS TO ******* DIE. It actually induces a decent amount of rage, and is totally inexplicable. Just show me the schedule. And a map. It's not hard, countless agencies actively fight any attempt to get either, and the TTC is far from the worst offender.

 

[steveintoronto]

Just show me the schedule. And a map. It's not hard, countless agencies actively fight any attempt to get either, and the TTC is far from the worst offender.

You nailed it! The one that truly burns me is GO, and at *hubs* fer Crisakes! I can understand their being so anal as to not put it on every stop, albeit the interval would be handy, and days of operation, but to not put it at hubs where *your whole journey could hinge on taking the next available route* or * the one that stops the other end of the platform* is absolutely crucial. And not only that, you need to see how various timetables intersect to plan any kind of meaningful trip, and what other time and route options are available. But that's beyond the average zombie...

If people can't read a simple 'x-y' Cartesian timetable chart, they shouldn't be allowed to drive, vote and procreate. And what's even worse are system administrators who can't understand the need for posting them.

You can see the empty timetable displays at the hubs, with nothing in them save for announcements of Waldo being lost, and the reflections of desperate older folks and others without stupid 'smart-phones' (iMemyself devices) staring into the glass displays...

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

I could write a LOT about this, but this freaking obsession with hiding useful schedules in favour of trip planners "next departure" and schedules for particular stops exists all through transportation, has for as long as the internet has existed and NEEDS TO ******* DIE. It actually induces a decent amount of rage, and is totally inexplicable. Just show me the schedule. And a map. It's not hard, countless agencies actively fight any attempt to get either, and the TTC is far from the worst offender.

They should have really kept the printed scedules at stops, lower income and elderly people have a hard time finding out this info without them as they have limited access to technology

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I could write a LOT about this, but this freaking obsession with hiding useful schedules in favour of trip planners "next departure" and schedules for particular stops exists all through transportation, has for as long as the internet has existed and NEEDS TO ******* DIE. It actually induces a decent amount of rage, and is totally inexplicable. Just show me the schedule. And a map. It's not hard, countless agencies actively fight any attempt to get either, and the TTC is far from the worst offender.

Most of the apps now show in real time the location of the vehicle a paper schedule only tells you the approximate time a vehicle will be there although I would like to see them keep the route maps at stops as it is useful to see where the line goes if you aren't familiar with it.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Most of the apps now show in real time the location of the vehicle a paper schedule only tells you the approximate time a vehicle will be there although I would like to see them keep the route maps at stops as it is useful to see where the line goes if you aren't familiar with it.

Which at best tells me when the next, possibly next few, vehicles will be there. A schedule remains the only real way to get a quick sense of the frequency and coverage of the service at a glance. I don't want to have to make specific inquiry as to every possible time I might make a trip, and that is the use case that almost everything seems to be designed around of late.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Which at best tells me when the next, possibly next few, vehicles will be there. A schedule remains the only real way to get a quick sense of the frequency and coverage of the service at a glance. I don't want to have to make specific inquiry as to every possible time I might make a trip, and that is the use case that almost everything seems to be designed around of late.

Doesn't help with short turn vehicles. Especially when the higher ups make the decision to short turn at the stop you are waiting at. Would like to know if any of the 3 buses in the bunch will be going to the subway station, or the first or second one, or both, will short turn at the next traffic lights.

 

[steveintoronto]

Most of the apps now show in real time the location of the vehicle a paper schedule only tells you the approximate time a vehicle will be there although I would like to see them keep the route maps at stops as it is useful to see where the line goes if you aren't familiar with it.

*Even with a (dumb) smartphone* it's a hell of a lot easier to glance at a posted timetable. I'll take my chances. Why in hell should I have to carry a smartphone, or anyone else for that matter, because the Transit Gods deem it necessary?

They still print schedules, don't they? Why do you think they'd do that if smartphones render them moot?

And they still print maps and books. And money. Put up freakin' printed schedules fer Crisakes at least at hubs. Try reading a full schedule on a smartphone sometime...

I laugh when cycling distance in the country, and then we come to a fork in the road. By the time my cycling partners have got a signal, found the location, zoomed in, zoomed out again to gain regional reference, and then fumbled with the limitations of Google or whatever, I've already set off down the right road after using my map.

And the batteries never go dead, I never have 'signal dropout', and inherently I know from my compass which direction we're headed. And they've been doing this for centuries. And you drop it? Maps don't crack or shatter. Lose them, and you're out five bucks, ten now for the ones I use. (Coated water resistant) And you never have to bow to Apple.

Oh...and the display? Depending on the map, measured in feet.

Cell phones are excellent for calling someone or their calling you when you're otherwise incommunicado. By choice.

 

[Steve X]

So with the new communication technology TTC is rolling out on the surface fleet, the bus can automatically send back vehicle load, short turns and etc. to TTC supervisors. In the future they could let passengers know what the next bus will look like and is it short turning before it arrives. I could see this implemented in the next few years if they really care about customer experience.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

*Even with a (dumb) smartphone* it's a hell of a lot easier to glance at a posted timetable. I'll take my chances. Why in hell should I have to carry a smartphone, or anyone else for that matter, because the Transit Gods deem it necessary?

They still print schedules, don't they? Why do you think they'd do that if smartphones render them moot?

And they still print maps and books. And money. Put up freakin' printed schedules fer Crisakes at least at hubs. Try reading a full schedule on a smartphone sometime...

I laugh when cycling distance in the country, and then we come to a fork in the road. By the time my cycling partners have got a signal, found the location, zoomed in, zoomed out again to gain regional reference, and then fumbled with the limitations of Google or whatever, I've already set off down the right road after using my map.

And the batteries never go dead, I never have 'signal dropout', and inherently I know from my compass which direction we're headed. And they've been doing this for centuries. And you drop it? Maps don't crack or shatter. Lose them, and you're out five bucks, ten now for the ones I use. (Coated water resistant) And you never have to bow to Apple.

Oh...and the display? Depending on the map, measured in feet.

Cell phones are excellent for calling someone or their calling you when you're otherwise incommunicado. By choice.

Basically, the only reason they still print schedules is for elderly people who requested they keep on printing said schedules after TTC got a lot of complaints when they first did this.

 

[steveintoronto]

Basically, the only reason they still print schedules is for elderly people

Reference? I see a *lot* of people picking up timetables from the racks at Union, and most are working or students, and just want to know when the buses and trains run. What a concept.

And at Union and many stations, where they have the local timetables on display, they're often all snapped up in a short period of time when the new ones come out.

Do you have a printer with your iPhone by any chance?

That's for GO Transit, the same demand would be for printed TTC ones if they were available. Fortunately for me, I live at Dundas West, and all routes are frequent...well...when they're on time. The 504A is incredibly unreliable on Roncy. If I lived on the periphery of the TTC however, or on a service that runs only every half an hour, damn right I'd want a printed schedule.

Since Crosstown is a Metrolinx operation, but going to be run by the TTC, it remains to be seen if printed timetables will exist for the route.

Meantime, this is how bizarre it's become for this gen to understand anything outside of predigested 140 bit messages:

How to Use Printed Timetables

Ever tried looking up a train time in one of our printed timetables and found it too confusing?
It's easy to look at the wrong day, direction or simply find it difficult to figure out the arrival and departure times. Which is why we've put together a handy guide to using our timetables, simply read the below points and use our handy diagram below.

Step 1: Select your direction of travel, e.g. Northbound or Southbound.
Step 2: Select the day of the week you are planning to travel on.
Step 3: Select which station you would like to travel from
Step 4: Follow the row on your departure station to the right to find a convenient time to travel.
Step 5: Follow the column of your chosen departure time down until, using the station list on the left, you find your chosen destination.
You now have your departure time and arrival time. Enjoy your journey.

https://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/train-times/How-to-use-printed-timetables/

Oh the poor snowflakes!

Next: How to tie your shoelaces if you don't have Velcro...isn't there an app for that?

 

[crs1026]

Basically, the only reason they still print schedules is for elderly people who requested they keep on printing said schedules after TTC got a lot of complaints when they first did this.

Scuze me??? “Elderly people” ???? I resemble that remark.

Same thing is true of maps. You learn a lot just by reading them. A GPS will give you directions, sure....but won’t give you the lay of the land or help you orient yourself.. Trip planners will tell you when the next bus is, but it won’t tell you that the express buses stop running at 19:00 and after that it’s all locals. The request for schedule may be about finding the optimal connection or timing. I can leave at 12:00, but if I wait til 14:00, something is better. Unless you can read the whole timetable, you wouldn’t discover that.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Same thing is true of maps. You learn a lot just by reading them.

Maps are fascinating. It's not a misuse of the term "study a map" by any means. GPS just considers you a mindless zombie, and tells you when and where to turn, you're given no idea of the lay of the land, what sights you'll miss, or if there's a slightly slower route, but priceless in other ways.

Resistance is futile...

I will add that I miss the Joint Operations Graphic (Air) maps published/printed by DND up until late nineties. Supreme for cycling distance with, they look like atlas maps with relief prominently displayed, and old rail lines and other features marked (Elec xmssn lines, pipelines, etc). Googling on them, I see they are still available on-line, but not in print form:
https://www.worldcat.org/title/joint-operations-graphic-air-canada/oclc/437050578

I treasure my collection, but even in plastic sleeves for on the road, they deteriorate with time. I wonder if UT has a 'map forum thread'?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Maps are fascinating. It's not a misuse of the term "study a map" by any means. GPS just considers you a mindless zombie, and tells you when and where to turn, you're given no idea of the lay of the land, what sights you'll miss, or if there's a slightly slower route, but priceless in other ways.

Resistance is futile...

I will add that I miss the Joint Operations Graphic (Air) maps published/printed by DND up until late nineties. Supreme for cycling distance with, they look like atlas maps with relief prominently displayed, and old rail lines and other features marked (Elec xmssn lines, pipelines, etc). Googling on them, I see they are still available on-line, but not in print form:
https://www.worldcat.org/title/joint-operations-graphic-air-canada/oclc/437050578

I treasure my collection, but even in plastic sleeves for on the road, they deteriorate with time. I wonder if UT has a 'map forum thread'?

But my GPS told me to take this road:

(GPS should tell me that there is a fire, police incident, what-ever, happening and to take a different route.)

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Scuze me??? “Elderly people” ???? I resemble that remark.

Same thing is true of maps. You learn a lot just by reading them. A GPS will give you directions, sure....but won’t give you the lay of the land or help you orient yourself.. Trip planners will tell you when the next bus is, but it won’t tell you that the express buses stop running at 19:00 and after that it’s all locals. The request for schedule may be about finding the optimal connection or timing. I can leave at 12:00, but if I wait til 14:00, something is better. Unless you can read the whole timetable, you wouldn’t discover that.

- Paul

Well, I prefer the printed scedules as well. I was saying that as they were a specific group of people who ask for it.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Reference? I see a *lot* of people picking up timetables from the racks at Union, and most are working or students, and just want to know when the buses and trains run. What a concept.

And at Union and many stations, where they have the local timetables on display, they're often all snapped up in a short period of time when the new ones come out.

Do you have a printer with your iPhone by any chance?

That's for GO Transit, the same demand would be for printed TTC ones if they were available. Fortunately for me, I live at Dundas West, and all routes are frequent...well...when they're on time. The 504A is incredibly unreliable on Roncy. If I lived on the periphery of the TTC however, or on a service that runs only every half an hour, damn right I'd want a printed schedule.

Since Crosstown is a Metrolinx operation, but going to be run by the TTC, it remains to be seen if printed timetables will exist for the route.

Meantime, this is how bizarre it's become for this gen to understand anything outside of predigested 140 bit messages:

https://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/train-times/How-to-use-printed-timetables/

Oh the poor snowflakes!

Next: How to tie your shoelaces if you don't have Velcro...isn't there an app for that?

Read my above my message. I prefer them too. And, hey, if they had a scedule for 504A that was printed, and not a GPS, that would be great too. I always see 3 501s ( CLRVs ) at Queen and Roncy with only 1 504A ( Flexity ) in sight