From 1969 to 1978, the University Subway (Line 1) was closed and replaced by buses between Union Station and St George Station, during the late evenings and on Sundays. Don't think that will happen with the Eglinton West LRT extension.

Still waiting for that to happen with the Sheppard East Subway (Line 4).
 
Rainforest said:
The opening day peak forecasts for EC LRT were in the range of 5,500 to 7,500. Definitely below 10,000. Might be greater in the west now, with EW LRT being fully grade separated.

A failure? Definitely not. Sheppard subway had a peak of 5,500 pre-Covid. TYSSE is about same as Sheppard, or less. SSE forecast is up to 14,000 (east of Kennedy), but I think it is a bit exaggerated, 11,000 - 12,000 is more likely. And SSE is a trunk line for a huge suburb with a large population. So, 7,000 is a decent load.
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The funny thing about the Eglinton Line is that the central and most expensive portion of the line will also see the least usage.

Eastbound into Eglinton West was expected to see about 7,500 pphpd
Westbound into Yonge was expected to see about 5,500 pphpd. With the OL in place, I'd expect westbound into Don Mills to see around 5,000 pphpd.
The expensive section between Don Mills and Eglinton West will see significantly less traffic, as most customers will transfer onto the OL or Spadina Line to access downtown.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The funny thing about the Eglinton Line is that the central and most expensive portion of the line will also see the least usage.

Eastbound into Eglinton West was expected to see about 7,500 pphpd
Westbound into Yonge was expected to see about 5,500 pphpd. With the OL in place, I'd expect westbound into Don Mills to see around 5,000 pphpd.
The expensive section between Don Mills and Eglinton West will see significantly less traffic, as most customers will transfer onto the OL or Spadina Line to access downtown.
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Yes, that's somewhat ironic.

But on the other hand, the boarding counts between Allen Rd and Don Mills should be pretty high. It's just the peak ridership that will be lower, because the riders will tend to transfer at one of the subway connections, and their paths will overlap less.
 
W. K. Lis said:
From 1969 to 1978, the University Subway (Line 1) was closed and replaced by buses between Union Station and St George Station, during the late evenings and on Sundays. Don't think that will happen with the Eglinton West LRT extension.

Still waiting for that to happen with the Sheppard East Subway (Line 4).
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Pretty sure Eg West will not be replaced by buses during the late evenings. At nights, maybe, but only together with the whole Eglinton line.

For Line 4, it would make perfect sense to use buses during the late evenings, say after 11 pm. Fewer transfers for the riders who travel east of Don Mills, and the bus would be nearly as fast as the subway at that late hour. Don't know why TTC isn't doing that.
 
robmausser said:
Just call this thing the Crosstown and thats that. Its its own animal. Not quite subway, not quite streetcar, its its own thing.
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The Crosstown line that only a crazy person would actually consider riding across town.
 
afransen said:
The Crosstown line that only a crazy person would actually consider riding across town.
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I think people in Etobicoke would want to use Line 5 to travel to the Science Centre Station. Especially since kids under 12 travel free on the TTC.

Is the "Golden Mile" still a "tourist attraction"? Oops! Wrong "Golden Mile"! 😄 😄

GoldenMileDurbanduringJulyFest2004.jpg
From link.
That's the Golden Mile (or, colloquially, "The Mile") along the popular stretch of beachfront in the city of Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
 
W. K. Lis said:
From 1969 to 1978, the University Subway (Line 1) was closed and replaced by buses between Union Station and St George Station, during the late evenings and on Sundays. Don't think that will happen with the Eglinton West LRT extension.

Still waiting for that to happen with the Sheppard East Subway (Line 4).
Click to expand...
It has been stated a number of time by TTC staff that the it was best to close Line 4 down 100% and use buses since it was far cheaper to do. S17 vs $1.95 a rider is a huge saving.

The power to be refused to close line 4 as it would be admitting it should have never gotten built in the first place as well killing the idea of extending it to STC.
 
drum118 said:
It has been stated a number of time by TTC staff that the it was best to close Line 4 down 100% and use buses since it was far cheaper to do. S17 vs $1.95 a rider is a huge saving.

The power to be refused to close line 4 as it would be admitting it should have never gotten built in the first place as well killing the idea of extending it to STC.
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I do not support the idea of closing Line 4 entirely, and there is no case for that IMO.

$17 is the "total daily cost per user", that includes the operational expenses, the payments on the public debt equivalent of the construction cost, and probably the capital maintenance as well. If you close the subway, you do not recover the funds that went into building it. You save on the operational expenses, but you need to buy a large fleet of buses to extend the routes terminating at Don Mills today. In order to run to Yonge and maintain the same frequency, every route will need more buses. And then you have to pay the operational expenses of those additional buses.

Furthermore, that 5,500 pphpd peak ridership may be low for the subway, but trying to carry all those riders on buses would turn Sheppard into an insane river of buses.

However, a late-evening only closure can probably save some money, and might even be more convenient for the riders because it would save them a transfer.
 
drum118 said:
It has been stated a number of time by TTC staff that the it was best to close Line 4 down 100% and use buses since it was far cheaper to do. S17 vs $1.95 a rider is a huge saving.

The power to be refused to close line 4 as it would be admitting it should have never gotten built in the first place as well killing the idea of extending it to STC.
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The thinking appears to have changed, not only are the Sheppard extensions back in play, but the TTC appears to be looking seriously at going to six-car trains (finishing off the station shells accordingly).
 
Northern Light said:
I made note of it here last fall. (though can't find my own post on it just at the moment)

It was embedded in the TTC's new Fleet Plan.

From Steve Munro's website, the following excerpt:

View attachment 341494

The post by Steve that that came from can be found here: https://stevemunro.ca/2020/10/17/ttc-proposes-massive-fleet-plan/
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That's a very interesting finding. Although I'm still trying to get their motivation.

Maybe, that's the way to add capacity to Line 4 without adding more operators, i.e. without adding the labor costs.
 
Northern Light said:
The thinking appears to have changed, not only are the Sheppard extensions back in play, but the TTC appears to be looking seriously at going to six-car trains (finishing off the station shells accordingly).
Click to expand...
Giving the fact the subway system is under the control of the province and Ford pet thing, not surprise the subway line lives. As for extending the 4 car trains to 6/7 cars has to due with the new fleet that has to be order to replace the T1. The TR will be move to line 2 and the extra cars has to order to have full 6 car trains for the line.

The extra cars have to be order soon so the 4 cars can become 6 cars to allow the end walls in the stations be remove so the platform can be fully open. Not much to be done to have full platforms other than the removal of the end wall that I know of. It will require relocating the signals first as it will take time to do it with a new signal post.

By increasing the 4 to 6 cars allows existing headways to remain as there will be extra capacity with the longer trains.
 
Rainforest said:
That's a very interesting finding. Although I'm still trying to get their motivation.

Maybe, that's the way to add capacity to Line 4 without adding more operators, i.e. without adding the labor costs.
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Pre-pandemic the line was operating close to capacity in rush hours. (at current levels of service)

There are no additional spare train sets in the custom 4-car configuration available so far as I know.

So adding capacity would at least mean customizing more 4-car train sets for the line.

It also provides longer-term interoperability with other TTC lines.

That, in addition to the fact expansion is being seriously discussed, I think provides the bulk of the motivation. (any expansion is likely, one assumes, to drive higher ridership, and
new stations would be built to six-car train standard.
 
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