- Thread starter W. K. Lis
- Start date
micheal_can
Senior Member
A split at Kennedy sound slike the better plan. At least it is already a major interchange station.
NoahB
Active Member
Vancouver's people cower in fear every time they see one of their elevated stations. We should learn from their experience becoming the ugliest and most dangerous city in the country. /s
Sarcasm aside, Vancouver's elevated stations really showcase how beautiful the city is. And their system is completely grade-separated and has relatively cheap construction costs. I wish Toronto followed their example...
The Langley extension will cost 3.12B for 16km/8 stations of completely grade separate & automated rail that uses the 'overbuilt' station designs people on this forum and the city of Toronto don't like.
Sarcasm aside, Vancouver's elevated stations really showcase how beautiful the city is. And their system is completely grade-separated and has relatively cheap construction costs. I wish Toronto followed their example...
The Langley extension will cost 3.12B for 16km/8 stations of completely grade separate & automated rail that uses the 'overbuilt' station designs people on this forum and the city of Toronto don't like.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Transit references start on PDF page 89 including stuff on the Eglinton West LRT.
No new information as best I can tell. What's funny is that at one point they list it under "subways" but then in another part call it LRT.
No new information as best I can tell. What's funny is that at one point they list it under "subways" but then in another part call it LRT.
Northern Light
Superstar
While there may be some excess hyperbole on elevated stations at times; there do need to be a few finer points added to your comparison.
1) Vancouver has much nicer weather (temperature wise anyway) for outdoor stations that lack heating.
2) Vancouver's costs are partially a factor of smaller stations and shorter trains, with the attendant lower capacities.
3) Vancouver has invested heavily in its public realm and in the quality of many of its transit stations; a quick glance at the SRT would not leave one wondering about whether Toronto had a similar track record (it does not)
4) The rendering shows a 2-track elevated structure while through Leslieville we're discussing six tracks and perhaps 7, plus platforms.
All of that is not to say Toronto couldn't do elevated lines in select locations and do them reasonably well.
Rather, it is to say that the province has not laid out a budget or plan commensurate with achieving such an objective; and in fairness, due to weather and higher capacity and construction costs, such a line would not be at the price point
of a Vancouver project.
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sixrings
Senior Member
Outdoor subway stations don't have heaters. I don't see the need. Buy a better jacket and wear a hat with mitts.
Northern Light
Superstar
I don't believe I said they did.
I suggested that this climate makes un-heated outdoor stations less attractive than in Vancouver, which I think is entirely accurate and fair.
I hasten to add, however, that if you have ever found yourself at Victoria Park Station late at night on a cold winter's evening with a 10 minute plus wait for a train, you might reconsider whether its design was reasonable.
I would at least argue for heating the mezzaine and enclosing the stairs/escalators as is the case at Union Station (York Concourse)
I will further note, that after a lovely walk through the ravine system on the weekend, I exited at Eglinton Avenue (Leslie) to grab a bus. There was no shelter at the temporary stop.
Despite wearing thermals and having a parka on, in the wind, gusting to 30 it was rather chilly, and that's with a temp just above zero, not at minus 10. I also had to wait almost 20 minutes for a bus; if that's indicative of what people at the outer edges
of the Eglinton West LRT can expect, I would consider heating a necessity.
NoahB
Active Member
1)Keele, High Park, and Old Mill, etc all are relatively/completely open to the outdoor winds and temperatures. And for the most part, people don't mind it if it's sheltered from snow and rain as far as I can tell. I dont think the weather is as much as a factor when people just accept the city's weather as is.
2)True about the length. But remember, we are discussing the Eglington grade separation in this thread.
3) All I cans say is that their stations look very barebones inside out. The city, in general, is well kept but not necessarily around the stations. I haven't visited and have only seen photos though. Not enough info on my part to comment further.
4)As in point #3, we are discussing the ECLRT extension through Etobicoke here, and not the Ontario Line. I will concede that in the Ontario Line's case the 6 tracks might be too much, but in general, I think the residence should just 'suck it up'. As homeowners, they probably can just sell to just move somewhere else. (Not the best argument. But let's not cancel a huge project just to please a few.)
NoahB
Active Member
Agreed on all fronts. Adding heated or climate-controlled sections would be a big help. especially if they put train arrival times there too like they do in GO stations.
MisterF
Senior Member
Smaller stations and shorter trains are just fine on lines that don't need the capacity of a 6 car subway. Like Eglinton, Jane, the waterfront, Finch, etc. There's no reason that the whole Transit City network couldn't have been designed like the LRT/light metro systems in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, or Montreal. We have no shortage of examples right here in Canada of how to do rapid transit in a pragmatic way.
I'll add that the recently opened Confederation Line in Ottawa has lots of open air stations and deals with more extreme weather than Toronto. I don't see the weather as an issue.
Not to mention that elevated stations don't need to be exposed to the elements. Like this.
https://rem.info/en/albums/rem-architectural-renders
Certain sections need tunnels while others don't. The SkyTrain goes underground in areas where it makes sense to. I agree that the Relief/Ontario line should be underground through a tight, dense urban area like Leslieville. On a suburban section of Eglinton, not so much.
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Steve X
Senior Member
Also to consider is how long are people waiting for their next train. If they are waiting for 2-3 minutes, they'll less likely need a heater. While headways of 10-15 minutes will definitely benefit from heated shelters.
tmlittle
Active Member
I think there's also an argument for decent shelter design aside from heaters, but it's tough to try to squeeze a proper sealed shelter that doesn't let wind pass through onto an island platform.
Steve X
Senior Member
It shouldn't be a problem since island platforms should be around 6m wide. They have heated shelter at UPX stations, this wouldn't be a first for ML.
tmlittle
Active Member
I don't think ION platforms are 6m wide and the shelters on them are pretty cramped, but ION stations are also pretty barebones compared to the proposed ones for Toronto LRT projects. Several of them do have heaters, though the wind chill factor coming in through the doorway probably just about negates them.
crs1026
Superstar
^Just getting out of the wind/rain may be as important as anything. Better shelter design rather than heaters may be the answer.
Here we are in one thread debating carbon mitigation as an urgent matter, and wanting to add carbon-laden heaters in another.
What’s the carbon footprint of a fully heated transit station?
I love heated shelters when I find one on a cold night, but I have to admit, this is Canada, after all.
- Paul
Here we are in one thread debating carbon mitigation as an urgent matter, and wanting to add carbon-laden heaters in another.
What’s the carbon footprint of a fully heated transit station?
I love heated shelters when I find one on a cold night, but I have to admit, this is Canada, after all.
- Paul