[sixrings]

It takes three governments to make transit because the city relies on the province and the feds.

Here is the list of mayors/premiers/PMs since about 95

1998-2003 lastman (right)
2003-2010 Miller (Left)
2010-2014 Ford (Right)
2014-201X Tory (Right)
14 years (right) 7 years (left)

1995-2002 Harris (Right)
2002-03 Eves (Right)
2003-13 McGuinty (Left)
2013-18 Wynne (Left)
2018-201X Ford
9 years (Right) 15 years (left)

1993-2003 Cretien (Left)
2003-2006 Martin (Left)
2006-2015 Harper (Right)
2015-201X Trudeau (Left)
9 years Right 17 years Left

Total combination is...
32 Right 39 years Left

The point is each government had oppertunities to move forward yet we seem to be spinning our wheels. Both sides are to blame.

 

[KevinT]

Conservatives don't like ballooning debt, or does $340+ billion the Province owes to its creditors not alarm you in the least?

Not all debt is bad debt. I'll take a mortgage on infrastructure over crumbling infrastructure any day of the week.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tax cuts are always argued as a means of stimulating the economy, and not a reduction in revenues. Considering that Ontario has lead the jobs growth these past 9 months, there has got to be some truth to it. And this after Ontario created no jobs in the 1st 5 months of 2018 - which just happen to be the Liberal months after minimum wage increases were enacted and future ones coming.

If the money is just going to be wasted, better to not spend anything and wait for smarter people to be in charge.

Forget for a moment that your attempt to provide proof has to rely on short duration monthly variations that is insufficient to delineate cause/effect relationships - the Liberal minimum wage increases already enacted were not rescinded. And you can "argue" all you like - the fact is, the current government removed 3B revenues from the pot in a deficit situation - and in effect, added to both the debt AND the servicing cost.

Oh and just to entertain you a little regarding job growth:

Source: https://www.ontario.ca/page/labour-market-report-january-2018

I am sure you can tell me the years of the previous government's reign.

AoD

 

[north-of-anything]

I like the idea of Option 4, but maybe with the elevated portion continuing west past Scarlett to between Islington and Wincott/Bemersyde. I think there's a fear of elevated rail in the Toronto area that needs to be soothed...

 

[nfitz]

It takes three governments to make transit because the city relies on the province and the feds.

Here is the list of mayors/premiers/PMs since about 95

1998-2003 lastman (right)
2003-2010 Miller (Left)
2010-2014 Ford (Right)
2014-201X Tory (Right)
14 years (right) 7 years (left)

1995-2002 Harris (Right)
2002-03 Eves (Right)
2003-13 McGuinty (Left)
2013-18 Wynne (Left)
2018-201X Ford
9 years (Right) 15 years (left)

1993-2003 Cretien (Left)
2003-2006 Martin (Left)
2006-2015 Harper (Right)
2015-201X Trudeau (Left)
9 years Right 17 years Left

Total combination is...
32 Right 39 years Left

The point is each government had oppertunities to move forward yet we seem to be spinning our wheels. Both sides are to blame.

I'm not sure why you are simply marking NDP and Liberals as Left, and Tories as Rght.

If you want to make it simple, the Liberals are Centre, the NDP Left, and the Tories right. It's much more nuanced than that though, with McGuinty and Martin being much further right than Wynne or even Chretien. And Lastman, Tory, and even Eves being further left than Harris and Ford.

Even Ford is a paradox, being very right-wing social conservative on one hand, but doesn't seem to show the same adversity to transit infrastructure advancement (for example) more like Davis and Tory.

 

[sixrings]

It may be more nuanced but some people on here make it out that if their party was in control then we would have had proper transit yesterday. The reality is each side has had their chance at the head of the table and still we are debating, deferring, delaying and rarely building transit. No party or side is BLAMELESS or perfect.

 

[nfitz]

It may be more nuanced but some people on here make it out that if their party was in control then we would have had proper transit yesterday. The reality is each side has had their chance at the head of the table and still we are debating, deferring, delaying and rarely building transit. No party or side is BLAMELESS or perfect.

Agreed. Some seem to think that under the NDP, it would be some kind of transit expansion nirvanna - but Bob Rae's government delayed the planned subway expansions under the Liberals for years and cancelled GO rail services that were running to Guelph and Barrie that weren't restored for decades.

We are still waiting for the off-peak Milton GO train service that the NDP cut to be restored!

 

[micheal_can]

Conservatives don't like ballooning debt, or does $340+ billion the Province owes to its creditors not alarm you in the least?

The time the liberals spent doing countless EAs, soil tests, ruling out grade separation from early in the process with little consultation, and deferring this project by over 10 years over versus just building the thing is how we got here.

Well, so alarming that it felt the need to provide tax cuts to make it worse - and add to that, Conservatives have absolutely no qualms spending money on projects of dubious benefits where it suits them.

AoD

Not all debt is bad debt. I'll take a mortgage on infrastructure over crumbling infrastructure any day of the week.

Every single party has in their platform that they will cut taxes and increase spending. We are stupid enough to have believed them for so long that they keep doing it. Now we have infrastructure that is crumbling around us and no way to pay for it..

But, hey, I got a return this year so that is a good thing, right?

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Well, so alarming that it felt the need to provide tax cuts to make it worse - and add to that, Conservatives have absolutely no qualms spending money on projects of dubious benefits where it suits them.

AoD

Like creating a new education policies

 

[W. K. Lis]

\
From link.

The section for the Eglinton West LRT, which Michael Lindsay said that it should be put underground for a “significant portion” of its route. Sounds like the province wants/demands/orders that option #2 (underground LRT, with 10 stops on Eglinton Ave W.), though option #4 (combination elevated and underground LRT, with seven (7) stops on Eglinton Ave W. (as recommended by the CWG in 2018)) could still happen.

From link.

(Insert clapping of seals here.)

 

[nfitz]

Oh great, so let's turn another $1 billion project into a $6 billion project.

"... the province proposed that a significant portion of this extension be subterranean".

I propose a significant portion of Doug Ford's head is stuck up his imagination.

This is his riding ... and he's wasting taxpayer money here. It's exactly that kind of corruption that we all expect out of the Fords! In reality, I suspect that this simply ends this project.

 

[JSF-1]

That line about the EWLRT being underground makes me want to vomit.

 

[BurlOak]

That line about the EWLRT being underground makes me want to vomit.

Going under the Humber River is maybe even worse of an idea than a 1 stop SSE.

 

[Rainforest]

That line about the EWLRT being underground makes me want to vomit.

Don't vomit until we know what "significant portion" they actually want to put underground (maybe, that portion isn't too long). And, in what timeframe (if it is pushed past 2026, then it is about as relevant as planning a journey to another galaxy).

 

[Forgotten]

There may be a good technical explanation, but it really does feel like they embellished Options 3 and 4 so that they were as close as possible in cost to option 2..... thereby making Option 1 the most attractive ie most affordable.... ie
Creating non-starter options to steer decisionmaking to the preferred option, while creating the appearance of objectivity and openness to alternatives.

You should know by now that's the current planning regime MO. They did the fixing to select Mccowan and Queen for their subways and they're doing another dishonest evaluation to force their streetcars on Eglinton West.

Oh great, so let's turn another $1 billion project into a $6 billion project.

"... the province proposed that a significant portion of this extension be subterranean".

I propose a significant portion of Doug Ford's head is stuck up his imagination.

This is his riding ... and he's wasting taxpayer money here. It's exactly that kind of corruption that we all expect out of the Fords! In reality, I suspect that this simply ends this project.

It's the planning regime's fault for not putting forward a good and credible alternative that the people could get behind first. If they had the hybrid street and elevated option seriously planned and costed out instead of trying their hand at social engineering our transit again, our Premier Ford's idea would get laughed out of the room and have zero support but no. I've been saying for years this group in the planning office needed to be dumped for fresh blood.