Canadian Chocho
Active Member
You beat me to it. This should be the criteria we base what cities we deem 'great' or not, and not the aesthetic of their structures.
- Thread starter golodhendil
- Start date
You beat me to it. This should be the criteria we base what cities we deem 'great' or not, and not the aesthetic of their structures.
buildup
Senior Member
We should be both. They are not mutually exclusive as some suggest.
RC8
Senior Member
To be fair, Toronto's architecture is pretty neat considering the historical context, and we'd get a lot more recognition in that regard if we didn't have a dysmal public realm.
DtTO
Active Member
This is quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read on this forum. Toronto, and all Canadian cities (aside from MTL) were nothing in the 70's. Toronto, especially, is new on the world stage. It was a regional centre, at best, in the 70's.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
1970s Toronto was more comparable to Buffalo than any world class city. This is a yonge city that is just starting to creep onto the worlds radar.
Peepers
Banned
This is quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read on this forum. Toronto, and all Canadian cities (aside from MTL) were nothing in the 70's. Toronto, especially, is new on the world stage. It was a regional centre, at best, in the 70's.
Actually in terms of architecture (which is what I believe Ushahid was referencing) what Toronto was building back in the 70's and 80's was more "world class" for it's time than what has been built during the recent building boom spanning a similar period.
Look at what was built in a relatively short time span during the 70' and 80's:
TD Centre, Commerce Court, Bank of Montreal, Royal Bank Plaza, Scotia Plaza, CN Tower - the work of some of the greatest architects of all time including Mies van der Rohe, I.M. Pei, Philip Johnson, Edward Durell Stone to name a few.
What are the stand-out buildings during this latest boom? We have to look to Mississauga and Absolute Towers for stand-out architecture from this era. Most of what has been built have been cookie-cutter condo's.
If we can get projects such as Mirvish / Gehry, 1 Yonge Street and Oxford Place built we can once again consider ourselves to be "world class" when it comes to new architecture.
adma
Superstar
A few points here...
1) Royal Bank Plaza and Scotia Plaza were homegrown designs by WZMH, which was the same solid domestic corporate operation then as today; no "world class starchitects" imported to make them possible (and the CN Tower was likewise "homegrown", though John Andrews was more "domestic-starchitectesque" during his Toronto stint)
2) aside from the questionable case of the Torno penthouse, IIRC Philip Johnson didn't do anything in Toronto until the CBC HQ, which wasn't finished until the early 90s
3) by the 60s/70s, cognoscenti were judging Edward Durell Stone as more "world crass" than "world class", and the context-mugging Carrara orgy that was FCP didn't fare any better in critics' eyes--in fact, at least in the eyes of said cognoscenti, to call 60s/70s Stone "one of the greatest architects of all time" would be like calling Jacqueline Susann "one of the greatest authors of all time"
4) remember: when it comes to present day equivalents to Mies, Pei, Johnson, Stone (and the latter two asterisked), we've already had Gehry at the AGO, plus Libeskind (at ROM *and* the L Tower), Alsop, Snohetta, Foster, Behnisch, Maki, Correa, SOM, KPF, etc etc etc.
And as for Marilyn in Mississauga: hey, nothing wrong with that. Good score. And Mississauga's part of the GTA; so it isn't like we ought to be having penis-envy jealousy or anything...
ushahid
Senior Member
This is quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read on this forum. Toronto, and all Canadian cities (aside from MTL) were nothing in the 70's. Toronto, especially, is new on the world stage. It was a regional centre, at best, in the 70's.
Toronto was nothing but still better than Mumbai, Dubai, Hong Kong, Seoul, Moscow, London etc.
here are some examples from 70s compared to Toronto.
Hong Kong http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&b...17&tx=204.29412841796875&ty=73.23529815673828
Mumbai http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&b...p=20&tx=77.5294189453125&ty=36.47059631347656
Dubai http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&b...&start=17&ndsp=26&tx=158&ty=77.05882263183594
and by this statement I meant about quality and architecture in 70s.
Peepers
Banned
1) Yes I am aware local firms designed these buildings but they were world class at the time (the CN Tower is iconic).
2) My understanding is Johnson had a hand on the interiors for the TD Centre - just as he collaborated with Mies on the Seagram building
3) Stones work hasn't stood the test of time but for his time he was considered one of the best.
4) With the exception of Libeskind's L-Tower none of these architects have made a big impact on our skyline also in the case of Gehry his ROM makeover is far from being his best work (owing to the constraints of having to work around an existing structure).
RC8
Senior Member
Quality architecture is only very superficially related to 'skylines'. Let's not forget people who want this built at all costs are also big fans of Aura and Trump.
I mean, shall we push these on Yonge while we are at it?
I mean, shall we push these on Yonge while we are at it?
DtTO
Active Member
Your initial comment was a blanket statement about the city. Maybe you should actually visit Toronto, at least once, before you say Mumbai and Dubai can compete on the world stage (besides "OMG TALLER BUILDINGS *drool*"). Who cares how tall the buildings are? That's such a shallow, uninformed measure of a city's value. I'm very pro-developement, but I have to hand it to people like Adma; some "pro-development" types really have their heads in the sand.
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ProjectEnd
Superstar
ushahid
Senior Member
if u r sayin that Dubai and other cities cant compete on world stage, for ur kind info....... Dubai hav the 4th best skyline in the world and Hong Kong 1st best skyline in the world and Mumbai is doing better as well but Toronto is not making any progress and is on still phase. during the recent construction boom in Toronto only 20% of the buildings were icons and rest were bullsh.., architecture wise and quality wise. if u say that the quality of buildings in Dubai and other cities is not good, let me tell u something that stop dreaming. u should see the condos in Princess tower, Dubai. it so luxurious that there is no 7 star hotel in Canada that can compete with those condos. at least these cities have some variation in the architecture and façade.
u said visit Toronto, man I did in 2008, I also visited my grandpa in Dubai in 2011, I also visited Hong Kong in 2012, both look better than Toronto and I must say u should visit Hong Kong and Dubai.
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Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
Who says there's no seven-star hotel in Canada? Why, I'm running one in my front room. It's easy, because there's no such thing as a seven-star hotel, unless you arbitrarily claim it is. I myself have a futon and a nice fuzzy blanket on offer, and if that's not worth seven, or maybe eight or nine stars, than what is?
I think you're looking for the "comparison of pointy things" room. It's just down the hall.
I think you're looking for the "comparison of pointy things" room. It's just down the hall.
Lenser
Senior Member
I'd like to have an argument, please.