syn
Senior Member
If I hadn't seen the previous models, I'd find these towers interesting. They still are interesting regardless, but I find them to be 'Toronto with a twist'.
i'm hoping for some more flourishes in the final design.
- Thread starter golodhendil
- Start date
If I hadn't seen the previous models, I'd find these towers interesting. They still are interesting regardless, but I find them to be 'Toronto with a twist'.
i'm hoping for some more flourishes in the final design.
syn
Senior Member
When I read that quote I wondered why he couldn't create a two tower scheme with a 'sculptural quality'.
In any case, as you mentioned there is a decent chance we'll see more of his trademark flourishes as we approach the final design.
Tewder
Senior Member
I am absolutely thrilled by the new vision for this project... and I'm impressed that they didn't just 'water down' the old concept but went back to the drawing board to completely reimagine it.
Attributes:
- Improved massing. I didn't like the 'wall' effect of three towers being the same size.
- Improved dialogue between the two buildings and overall cohesion. The three buildings always seemed a little random together.
- More urban, more contextual and more diverse at street level. Retaining some pre-existing structures with the new podiums creates layers of interest at street level, in a way that monolithic podiums do not (no matter how cool they are). This design concept is already proving very successful in certain areas of the city where blank slates are hard to come by (Distillery District, 5ive etc)... to see it elevated to the extent it is here is inspiring.
- Retains the Princess of Wales. I just could never really accept that they were going to destroy an exceptional performing arts centre. This is the 'Entertainment District' after all, the POW and a new gallery space will compliment perfectly the many other arts venues in the immediate surrounding area!
- Respects heritage. Some were so worried about height precedent that they were overlooking the extremely regressive precedent of destroying listed buildings. Toronto's past is littered with these mistakes. It restores a little faith now that maybe we've actually learned a thing or two about heritage and urban issues over the years.
- It's really tall. Not a big issue for me but i know it is for some who've been waiting for that super tall monument that would define this amazing building boom and usher the city into the big leagues.
- Improved public realm. Just the fact that 'Rockefeller Plaza' was mentioned to describe the concept for Duncan Street is beyond promising... skating at christmas time too??
Although the details remain to be seen, the early models are very encouraging... and all the more so given the level of thought and passion that clearly is driving this. It definitely inspires confidence that MG will deliver on the details, that they are invested in this vision in a way that we haven't seen in a private development in this city in a generation. Bravo!
Attributes:
- Improved massing. I didn't like the 'wall' effect of three towers being the same size.
- Improved dialogue between the two buildings and overall cohesion. The three buildings always seemed a little random together.
- More urban, more contextual and more diverse at street level. Retaining some pre-existing structures with the new podiums creates layers of interest at street level, in a way that monolithic podiums do not (no matter how cool they are). This design concept is already proving very successful in certain areas of the city where blank slates are hard to come by (Distillery District, 5ive etc)... to see it elevated to the extent it is here is inspiring.
- Retains the Princess of Wales. I just could never really accept that they were going to destroy an exceptional performing arts centre. This is the 'Entertainment District' after all, the POW and a new gallery space will compliment perfectly the many other arts venues in the immediate surrounding area!
- Respects heritage. Some were so worried about height precedent that they were overlooking the extremely regressive precedent of destroying listed buildings. Toronto's past is littered with these mistakes. It restores a little faith now that maybe we've actually learned a thing or two about heritage and urban issues over the years.
- It's really tall. Not a big issue for me but i know it is for some who've been waiting for that super tall monument that would define this amazing building boom and usher the city into the big leagues.
- Improved public realm. Just the fact that 'Rockefeller Plaza' was mentioned to describe the concept for Duncan Street is beyond promising... skating at christmas time too??
Although the details remain to be seen, the early models are very encouraging... and all the more so given the level of thought and passion that clearly is driving this. It definitely inspires confidence that MG will deliver on the details, that they are invested in this vision in a way that we haven't seen in a private development in this city in a generation. Bravo!
E.B.
Active Member
When I saw the Star photos I thought the project was ruined. I went to the meeting, saw the models and thought it's not that bad. A few thoughts:
1. the rippling effect & overall detailing is more visible than any of the photos I seen. both podium & tower.
2. it doesn't appear to have balconies. yay!
3. a person who said she was part of the development team told me the buildings will be glass & not sure but terracotta, because it's a lighter material.
4. the stream of glass is interesting, which is a positive.
5. it's has the most flair of any building in TO.
6. it's still a little too boxy but so was one of the original bldings.
Having said all that, I like it. but lets wait for the final iteration. It could be better or worse. And as far as I'm concerned this now a two building project. I'm not counting the POW & Eclipse as part of the project. The only blding that is included is the Anderson, which should NOT be there, it stops the podium from be complete on the west side.
1. the rippling effect & overall detailing is more visible than any of the photos I seen. both podium & tower.
2. it doesn't appear to have balconies. yay!
3. a person who said she was part of the development team told me the buildings will be glass & not sure but terracotta, because it's a lighter material.
4. the stream of glass is interesting, which is a positive.
5. it's has the most flair of any building in TO.
6. it's still a little too boxy but so was one of the original bldings.
Having said all that, I like it. but lets wait for the final iteration. It could be better or worse. And as far as I'm concerned this now a two building project. I'm not counting the POW & Eclipse as part of the project. The only blding that is included is the Anderson, which should NOT be there, it stops the podium from be complete on the west side.
MisterF
Senior Member
Well said Tudor, I agree with just about all of what you said. I too didn't like the "wall" effect of the original proposal. Despite what some on this board have said, the 3 tower proposal certainly wasn't a masterpiece. Gehry isn't the god of architecture and his designs are just as subject to criticism as anyone's. This version is a big improvement.
To the forumer who used City Hall as an example of what can be done with a blank slate, that's not very convincing. City Hall and NPS are fantastic and very influential but they're not without their flaws. The building literally turns its back on everything to its north and had heat issues in the south facing offices for years (heard that was fixed). And while any great square has an integral relationship with the buildings that frame it, NPS integrated very poorly with its surroundings. You could argue that while the blank slate allowed the vision to be carried out, it also caused the surroundings to be all but ignored. Many of those problems are only now being fixed with the NPS reno.
To the forumer who used City Hall as an example of what can be done with a blank slate, that's not very convincing. City Hall and NPS are fantastic and very influential but they're not without their flaws. The building literally turns its back on everything to its north and had heat issues in the south facing offices for years (heard that was fixed). And while any great square has an integral relationship with the buildings that frame it, NPS integrated very poorly with its surroundings. You could argue that while the blank slate allowed the vision to be carried out, it also caused the surroundings to be all but ignored. Many of those problems are only now being fixed with the NPS reno.
RyeJay
New Member
Of course Toronto needs more entertainment options, but as far as this proposal revision goes: it is becoming the centre -- ground zero -- of the Entertainment District.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I would love to see a rendering of these two buildings on our skyline, to see how it looks without FCP being the tallest building in the city
Tewder
Senior Member
Yes, King West may just supersede Yonge Street as the place where people in Toronto gather for entertainment (if it hasn't already)
A Torontonian Now
Senior Member
Me too (hint hint InsertName...)
devjohnson
Active Member
A huge improvement to the original. Meets the street 10x better.Plus we may be getting Toronto's tallest tower out of this!
As said above, it's a win-win. It's supertall, it protects heritage, it protects the theatre, and there isn't as many people to add to the density. The city is happy, Mirvish is happy, and Gehry is happy.
As said above, it's a win-win. It's supertall, it protects heritage, it protects the theatre, and there isn't as many people to add to the density. The city is happy, Mirvish is happy, and Gehry is happy.
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officedweller
Senior Member
Has anyone commented on the zigzag corner - compared to One Bloor East?
scamander24
Active Member
That part of Duncan is supposed to be a public plaza. I'm curious how it is going to be done, because the podiums on Duncan seem way to tall for any sunlight to hit that plaza. It seems like it will be small and dark, hopefully the next iteration deals with that.
As for the zigzag, it looks like it's going to overlap with the street a little. Or maybe it only looks like that because it's a tiny cardboard cut-out model.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
I can think of no other major city in the world that strives for mediocrity with more passion than does Toronto.
Where once we had original sculpture, we now have.....condos.
I think Ghery said it best “Three towers gave the scheme a sculptural quality,” Gehry told the Star recently. “With two, it ain’t there. But now I think it’s more Toronto." Ouch, that's a kick in the pants - but so true.
The new proposal is reminiscent of an architect that has given up on his best and is now offering something just for the sake of getting approval - two towers which - except for a few minor twists - are quite unremarkable - in fact this does not look like a true Ghery proposal - if I had to guess, I would say it was put together not by him but by his staff - Ghery himself doesn't seem to have the same enthusiasm for the project like he did before - we took away his verve and replaced it with practicality - too bad. We were offered an exciting ferrari and sent it back for a safe volvo.
We now have the honour of hosting a Gheryesque compromise. Not unlike the aluminum siding on the "crystal" - very practical but not very iconic or even noteworthy. The world will not be struck by this new design and it won't garner the international acclaim the first proposal would have. Too bad, our loss.
Just my opinion.
Where once we had original sculpture, we now have.....condos.
I think Ghery said it best “Three towers gave the scheme a sculptural quality,” Gehry told the Star recently. “With two, it ain’t there. But now I think it’s more Toronto." Ouch, that's a kick in the pants - but so true.
The new proposal is reminiscent of an architect that has given up on his best and is now offering something just for the sake of getting approval - two towers which - except for a few minor twists - are quite unremarkable - in fact this does not look like a true Ghery proposal - if I had to guess, I would say it was put together not by him but by his staff - Ghery himself doesn't seem to have the same enthusiasm for the project like he did before - we took away his verve and replaced it with practicality - too bad. We were offered an exciting ferrari and sent it back for a safe volvo.
We now have the honour of hosting a Gheryesque compromise. Not unlike the aluminum siding on the "crystal" - very practical but not very iconic or even noteworthy. The world will not be struck by this new design and it won't garner the international acclaim the first proposal would have. Too bad, our loss.
Just my opinion.
Ramako
Moderator
If you don't like the new design, the only people you have to blame are Mirvish, Gehry and your own unfounded expectations.
Transportfan
Senior Member
Mirvish is a damned expat too? I thought he lived here? Isn't there any famous Torontonian's where the term "home town" isn't an oxymoron?