[Torontovibe]

Personally, I wouldn't mind people being more wowed by the city when they happen to pass through. But maybe that's just me.

I couldn't agree more. The wow factor in Toronto is more like, ah, it's ok. I don't hear or read many people giving glowing reports of our architecture, that's for sure. It's time we stopped playing it so safe. I will be so happy when dull, glass boxes and the colour grey are a thing of the past. (I ain't holding my breath though lol)

 

[Tewder]

Hmmm, not sure I agree. Take a visitor to the new Telus Centre at the RCM and let them walk pas the ROM on the way. Take them down past the Gardiner and through Queen's Park Circle. Take them by the TD Centre and through Calatrava's atrium at Brookfield Place, along Front Street past the Flat Iron and on to St. Lawrence Market. Take them to the Distillery District or Cabbagetown to see among the most impressive Victorian architecture you'll find in North America. There are so many other beautiful buildings, new and old that you will see on your way!

Where I feel that Toronto does fall down is in the upkeep and development of its public spaces. We have a long way to go there but when we do get there I think the city will feel altogether like an amazing and interesting place.

Edited to add that I would also agree that we are relying far too lazily on nebulous glass buildings, especially with respect to condos and office towers, even if there are some pretty solid ones out there. The lowrise stuff though is generally far better and far more interesting. King West and Queen West areas are developing nicely and are pretty impressive in a North American context where inner cities tend to be pretty dreary and lifeless.

We get a little jaded because we're too close, but sometimes it takes a visitor or outsider to remind us that Toronto is actually pretty impressive.

 

[CanadianNational]

Has anyone heard any news about the cafe that was supposed to go in the centre's north-east corner at the ground floor? Since the opening of the centre, it's been usually filled with car advertising. Since the Nathan Philip's Square revitalization is proceeding with the plans for the restaurant starting to happen, it'd be timely to see something here as well.

 

[MetroMan]

I mentioned that very thing in the NPS thread. That corner will probably remain a showcase for their sponsors Range Rover/Jaguar. There is however a space along Queen St. West between this showcase and the box office. It's fairly large but from what I've been told, it doesn't have the amenities necessary for a restaurant (no kitchen or built in facilities for one). It's only been used once ever as far as I recall, as a temporary showcase for a garden company a few months ago.

Rent must be extraordinarily high for nobody to have picked up this prime spot after so many years. In the meantime, The Canadian Opera Company is losing money. They should just reduce the asking price for a lease. Some money is better than no money.

 

[Soho]

The only aspect of the Four Seasons Centre worth noting is from University Avenue. The other 3 sides look like an upscale Walmart warehouse (upscale because of quality brick). The face it presents to City Hall (NE corner) is just plain ugly. Such a key location and so little has come of it. It reinforces the notion of elitist architecture - a grand entrance & beautiful interior for the patrons, for everyone else 3 walls of brick.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I'm sure your $10,000 per year annual contribution to the Four Seasons Centre will help to address said architectural short-comings in the future Soho .

 

[Torontovibe]

The only aspect of the Four Seasons Centre worth noting is from University Avenue. The other 3 sides look like an upscale Walmart warehouse (upscale because of quality brick). The face it presents to City Hall (NE corner) is just plain ugly. Such a key location and so little has come of it. It reinforces the notion of elitist architecture - a grand entrance & beautiful interior for the patrons, for everyone else 3 walls of brick.

I couldn't agree more. This is my least favourite part of Queen Street and it's mostly because of this building. It's such a downer.

 

[MetroMan]

The good news is that in 10 years when all the fanfare of a new home for the Toronto Opera Company has faded, they're going to want to make a splash to renew interest in the 4SC and new donors will be itching to put their name on it. No, the existing building won't go anywhere (and I don't want it to) but with the interior so perfectly fine tuned both acoustically and architecturally, the outside may get a facelift.

I'd love it if some of our CAD skilled Urban Toronto members would present a fantasy vision for a remaking of the exterior of the 4SC with the only rule being that the existing auditorium and fly tower along with the City room have to remain in place. An opportunity presents itself in the Queen St. block.

As you can see in this construction photo, this building is completely separate from the main building and is framed in iron, not poured concrete. It can be dismantled and a generous sized and architecturally significant new addition built in its place.

The existing uses would have to be replaced in the new addition but it could be taller and with more thought given to street level presence.

Here's the layout for the street level:

 

[CanadianNational]

Personally, I wouldn't want to see any substantial change to the building at all. Now that it's built and done, I really like it's moody-grey massing, just the way it is.

I believe there was a plan to have a glass overhang along the length of the entire south side - I'd like to see that go in, though.

The only other thing that I think would be beneficial is, again, the opening of the north-east corner at ground level to public use to animate the space. The car ads look desperate, and are a downer.
The ground level hallway that connects the lobby to this space is currently pretty much blocked off, and the glimpses you get of the interior here is that it's pretty much a utilitarian hallway. This is the one bad dead spot in the design, IMO. I wonder if something could be done to remedy that? Polish up the hallway inside, and connect the glass along the ground level from east to west. It would be a slight change, but a beneficial one, I think.
I suppose those utilitarian hallways have to go somewhere, but I also can't help but think Mr. Diamond might have made better use of it if he'd had more money (or certainly, a bigger lot).

Some of the blame here has to go to the Sheraton Centre across the way. If it was only this corner of the Opera House that was unengaging, it would be no big deal. But faced with the concrete blanks of the Sheraton across the street, the cumulative effect is bad for enjoyment of the street.

 

[MetroMan]

Well, keep in mind that the original design included a tower on the NE corner. Building one at a later date could finance a remake of the Queen St. block since part of it would have to go anyway to make room for the tower.

 

[CanadianNational]

Ooh. True, but - I don't think I'd want to see that tower design resurrected at a later date. Even if Mr. Diamond had designed it, I think not having the tower attached was widely regarded as an architecturally beneficial move for the centre. People have gotten used to seeing that sort of thing since MOMA did it with Cesar Pelli back in the 80's (a controversial move) - but it still somehow smacks of a society that is unable to support the arts from within its public realm.

If the existing glass treatment was extended to the sidewalk on the Queen Street side, it might look something like this:

 

[Urban Shocker]

In the meantime, The Canadian Opera Company is losing money.

They reported a surplus again last year, and 94% houses, which is remarkable when you consider what has befallen other opera houses during the economic downturn of the past several years.

 

[MetroMan]

They reported a surplus again last year, and 94% houses, which is remarkable when you consider what has befallen other opera houses during the economic downturn of the past several years.

I don't mean that they're losing money as a company, I mean that they're not making money on rent that they could be if they put that space on the market for a price that a commercial user could justify.

Canadian National, those windows would face the inside of a narrow hallway so they'd have virtually no benefit.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't mean that they're losing money as a company, I mean that they're not making money on rent that they could be if they put that space on the market for a price that a commercial user could justify.

Canadian National, those windows would face the inside of a narrow hallway so they'd have virtually no benefit.

Coming late to this discussion but wouldn't Jaguar/Range Rover be paying them something to display their vehicles there? Perhaps the car company is valuing the space more than a resto would (if we are talking about the same space it would be smallish resto no?)

 

[MetroMan]

That's not the space in question. That corner is indeed very small. There's a much larger space located in the middle of the building between the Jaguar/Range Rover space and the box office. It's directly below the glass atrium on Queen St. The windows for that space are covered in a red sticker behind the glass.