CDL.TO
Moderator
D'oh, I forgot about the north-to-east chord between North Toronto and MacTier.
- Thread starter vic
- Start date
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
The presentation that AoD posted (thanks, BTW) shows the corridor starting elevation at Bloor to the Diamond, but it comes back down in a much shorter distance to the north, well before St. Clair. Is this due to existing elevation?
vic
Senior Member
Yes, exactly. That's the start of the Davenport escarpment. You get a good sense of it from Davenport and Caledonia Park. Streetview link: https://goo.gl/maps/V4VGL
At Dupont St the proposed rail bridge would be significantly taller than the low-rise surroundings. Some people want the Dupont underpass to be filled in, but that would cost millions of dollars and is something for the city not Metrolinx to decide.
The bridge would be similar to the UPX spur to Pearson: reinforced concrete supported by a single row of columns. Local opinion on the bridge proposal is mixed to say the least. It would rise several metres above the existing tracks, towering above peoples homes and highly visible in a lot of places. It's likely that noise walls will be required too, which adds even more to the height and visual impact. A community relations guy from Metrolinx attended the walk, and faced a barrage of questions/criticism about the proposal. His job would have been easier if there was more info about possible community benefits (electrification, new GO stations, public realm, aesthetics of the bridge), but it's too early at this stage to know about any of that. I see potential for a big fight between locals and Metrolinx like we saw at Weston.
Thanks for the pics! On most of my fantasy maps I usually include a station here at Dupont. Not only does it give the entire area new RT access (the subway is a bit of a walk, as is St. Clair), but it could also act as an interchange station should the CP mainline ever get any kind of GO service.
Looking at the underpass as it's pictured there, it would be pretty cool to see the road continuing to go underneath, with a GO station entrance at the current track level (ground level), leading to tracks at an elevated station. The sidewalks on either side could stay at ground level, and provide access to the station. As you mention, I think a lot of community opposition could be negated if Metrolinx included a station at the heart of the viaduct.
With this configuration, the Barrie line would end up with stations at Eglinton and Dupont, while the Kitchener line would have stations at Eglinton, St. Clair West (Junction Station), and Bloor.
smallspy
Senior Member
They could have easily done it within the ruling grade of the line (1.1%). You most certainly have a point with the noise, however.
It's less the escarpment and more the existing grade separation over St. Clair, which starts a little bit south of Davenport.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
wopchop
Building Toronto
I agree with drum and gweed. The community will unfortunately have to make some sacrifices, but I think that compensation for those sacrifices should be a station to service the area.
Any perceived loss in property value due to more train noise or huge viaduct could be offset by increase in property value from increased transit access. Seems fair.
Any perceived loss in property value due to more train noise or huge viaduct could be offset by increase in property value from increased transit access. Seems fair.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
They should use covered noise barriers atop the viaduct as compensation.
AoD
AoD
Exactly. People will be much more tolerant of disruption (both construction and on-going operation) if they see some benefit from it. I know that area quite well (one of my best friends used to live right and Lansdowne & Dupont), and it's in kind of a transit dead zone. It's on the fringe of walkability from Lansdowne Station, it's too far from St. Clair West for that line to be useful, and it's too far from the Kitchener line for that to be useful. A station at Dupont on the Barrie line would go a really long way to improving connectivity for the area. The underused industrial lands surrounding the tracks have the potential to be a redevelopment boom, if the right catalyst is provided.
ShonTron
Moderator
Another idea could be a new pedestrian/cycling trail along the tracks, up to St. Clair and even further north along the right-of-way to the Belt Line trail near Eglinton. It'd provide a relatively flat route up the escarpment and through the unusually hilly Silverthorne/Caledonia Park areas. That could get a lot of community buy-in.
Platform 27
Active Member
I'm sorry, but calling an area 900 m from a subway station, 1 km from a frequent dedicated-line streetcar, at the intersection of two "frequent network" bus routes a "transit dead zone" is ridiculous.
If meeting your definition of "transit-served" means GO trains must stop every 800 m, then nobody will be transit-served because the damn trains will be much much slower than driving.
vic
Senior Member
Metrolinx is basically trying to sell this plan to the community by saying we could use if for trails like this, new crossings, expanded parks underneath, etc. Tricky part is actually getting the pathway across the diamond too...unless you bring it up and over alongside the railway bridge.
The purpose of the "community reference panel" is basically to come up with ideas on how to "put lipstick on the pig" to minimize local impact and possibly provide benefits.
The best lipstick, in this case, is definitely the connectivity options...if they can be done (and paid for!).
-Vic
wopchop
Building Toronto
So, if the Barrie train stops at Eglinton and then at Bloor. Is that every 800m? To me it seems logical for it to interface with Line 2 Bloor-Danforth, as well as providing an added benefit to this area in compensation for local construction and disruption.
ShonTron
Moderator
Both the Dupont and Lansdowne buses are relatively infrequent, especially outside of peak. Closer to Dufferin is better, because the Dufferin bus is pretty frequent. For an urban area inside of the old City of Toronto, it's certainly at the lower end of the transit accessibility/frequency ladder. It's on the fringe of a lot of walkability circles (B-D and St. Clair West), but it's not really in any of them.
nfitz
Superstar
The Lansdowne bus (south of St. Clair) is part of the 10-minute network. From 6 AM to 2 AM it's every 10 minutes or better. At peak it's every 4.5 minutes in the AM and 6.5 minutes in the PM.
How is that relatively infrequent outside of peak?
Closer to Dufferin? Landsdowne/Dupont is about 650 m and 3 bus stops along Dupont from Dufferin. It's only 400 m and 1 bus stop along Dupont to Symington, where the frequent 168 Symington bus runs to Dundas West and Bloor stations. It's got a similar (or better) frequency than the Landsdowne bus at peak, but is only once every 12 minutes in the late evening - however TTC has promised to add this to the 10-minute network later this year.
It has 3 nearby north-south 10-minute network buses, with short rides to the Bloor line (not to mention the St. Clair streetcar and the Eglinton line). It's only 900 metres - about an 8-9 minute walk to a subway station. And has good connections to the Bloor GO station. I think that's excellent transit.
What does Walk Score say? www.walkscore.com/score/dupont-st-and-lansdowne-ave-toronto-on-canada
83 - excellent transit