mdrejhon
Senior Member
Yes, about time.
That said, the Hamilton LRT timeline is currently on schedule, it always had contingency room for all of this campaigns, politics, and posturing.
- Thread starter Kiwi
- Start date
That said, the Hamilton LRT timeline is currently on schedule, it always had contingency room for all of this campaigns, politics, and posturing.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Soooooo.....
Today, Ford just reconfirmed what I said.
Both left and right reconfirmed what I said.
When that actually happens, that's some damning consensus,
Was repeatedly declared by many as a de-facto LRT referendum.
Today's real news in reputable Canadian media confirming widespread consensus that Hamilton's election was a de-facfo LRT vote, with all those thousands "STOP THE TRAIN" ads and lawnsigns.
TheSpec: www.thespec.com/news-story/9055982--he-wants-an-lrt-he-s-going-to-get-an-lrt-/
CBC: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ford-lrt-1.4924067
Still think it's "FAKE NEWS"?
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crs1026
Superstar
^ There was never any doubt that Hamiltonians can reach overwhelming consensus when the issue is important.
It’s just nice to see that they all agree on something other than “Argos suck”.
- Paul
It’s just nice to see that they all agree on something other than “Argos suck”.
- Paul
muller877
Senior Member
Soooooo.....
Today, Ford just reconfirmed what I said.
Both left and right reconfirmed what I said.
When that actually happens, that's some damning consensus,
Was repeatedly declared by many as a de-facto LRT referendum.
Today's real news in reputable Canadian media confirming widespread consensus that Hamilton's election was a de-facfo LRT vote, with all those thousands "STOP THE TRAIN" ads and lawnsigns.
TheSpec: www.thespec.com/news-story/9055982--he-wants-an-lrt-he-s-going-to-get-an-lrt-/
CBC: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ford-lrt-1.4924067
Still think it's "FAKE NEWS"?
YES!!!!!
If you look at the polling only 33% thought the LRT was the main issue of the campaign. Albeit the largest issue.
However, when the papers and other say that is is a "de-facto LRT" election it is not the case based on polling. A "de-facto LRT" election would be 60%+ as the primary issue.
http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/... Hamilton Poll News Release (18 Oct 2018).pdf
micheal_can
Senior Member
This is only for the B-Line, right?
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Initially. The A-line spur got exchanged for a B-line extension to Eastgate Mall.
However, I expect multiple groups to advocate for an A-line LRT eventually - possibly the two-stage incremental concepts identical or similar to the one I suggested.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
That’s an interpretation that does not tell the whole story.
It reinforces what I said. Forum poll just proved my point when cross-referenced with what happened locally in huge-budget-advertising issue-equivalence tactics: LRT=Taxes, LRT=Traffic, LRT=Less for fixing roads, LRT=Infrastructure, LRT=Transit, LRT=Less funding for buses, etc. Many were false equivalences (some less so, some much so) but the FUD scaremongering was big budget and Trumpian.
So let’s bring this out in the open.
Quite dominant, no?
Even where people said taxes were the main issue, a lot of the same people thought LRT was #2 or #3 and voted based on that, too. Would you deny that?
This was much more dominant, and even when I talk to many who considered LRT as #2 or #3, it still had a major factor into their vote. Would you deny that, too?
In addition, there are many unintentional biasings under the surface - Such at “Property Taxes” and “Traffic Congestion” and saying LRT is not important (but they intentionally voted NOLRT because they are more concerned about “Property Taxes” than the LRT they intentionally don’t want to acknowledge). — intentional lowering of LRT importance in acknowledgement refusal.
In addition, there are voters who hate the LRT so much because of something they're hugely worried about. Such as LRT raising taxes. They focus on their highest priority attribute that they think LRT may also affect (the Property Taxes) being their bigger worry, unwittingly accidentally de-emphasizing LRT. Similar but unintentional lowering of LRT importance.
You know....because they thought LRT will kill traffic, or LRT will reduce funding for roads elsewhere, or LRT will raise taxes, so they voted for the secondary issue (that they think LRT will affect) as being #1. They’ve still voted because of LRT despite not being in the 33% bar!
Also, the way the question is worded, did not have
“I worry LRT raises taxes Yes/No”
“I worry LRT makes car traffic worse Yes/No”
“I worry LRT reduces Road/Infrastructure spending Yes/No”.
(And etc).
Otherwise, how did single-issue Vito get 38% of the vote when Forum said LRT was only 33%?
And that is assuming 100% of the 33% was NOLRT (including merely wanting the monies spent on roads/infra/lower tax instead). So leaving none of the “I must have LRT” vote within your claimed Forum 33% for Fred. How the heck did this happen?
Now, people voted on other things! Yup!!
But a number of those were loudly linked to LRT!! Infrastructure. Taxes. Transit. Etc. There was loud talk about $1B being redirected to fixing roads, as one gargantuan example of many! And what about those “LRT = Lets Raise Taxes” scare tactics Hamiltonians got? Those are other bars! Need I go on....
Which were common refrains here! They had to choose only one. The forum poll is subject to such fuzzy interpretations.
So, this in effect, many of the “Roads” bar, “Traffic” bar, “Transit” bar, “Infrastructure” bar (and other bars) actually considered LRT as part of the vote. Not 100%, but not 0% either. It all adds up, however.
If the question was simply distilled to a direct and inclusive Yes/No question:
“Did the LRT factor in your voting decision?
(Including ALL related effects you think LRT will affect for better or for worse — such as infrastructure, budgets, taxes, and traffic/transit changes) ”
....then the percentage would skyrocket well past this number. It can easily go well past >60%+ to 70%+ on this complex interacting issue.
Conclusion: Hamilton 2018 vote was a defacto LRT vote.
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I love how Sgro campaigning on an anti-LRT platform, making the election a de facto referendum on the topic, has indirectly forced Ford's hand to supporting the LRT.
Meanwhile in Mississauga, the future of Hurontario is beginning to look more doubtful than Hamilton.
Crazy how things can change in a year time.
Meanwhile in Mississauga, the future of Hurontario is beginning to look more doubtful than Hamilton.
Crazy how things can change in a year time.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Remember for a while how it looked like the Finch West LRT was gonna be killed and the Sheppard East LRT was going to be built? Now we have the exact opposite. LRT projects in the GTHA are a real wildcard.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
And now that Hamilton LRT apparently leaped ahead of Hurontario LRT in priority.
(...Okay, Niagara GO expansion comes a bit slower but LRT is much more economically important to Hamilton, to Ontario, and to Canada...)
(...Okay, Niagara GO expansion comes a bit slower but LRT is much more economically important to Hamilton, to Ontario, and to Canada...)
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Allandale25
Senior Member
Waiting for the thumb.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Maybe Doug Ford wants to go back in time to the 1950's and talk with GM on how buses will be great for public transit.
Or maybe Doug would rather talk with Judge Doom...
Or maybe Doug would rather talk with Judge Doom...
blaixx
Active Member
Nice to be getting these little updates.
Allandale25
Senior Member