OK, I'm sure I'm going to get heck on here but I just report what I see and if people don't agree with me, I'm fine with that.

I went to Doors Open at the CNE today and walked back downtown. I was passing by June Collwood Park, so I went to go have a look. I have been to this park 2 times in the last half year, since it's been open and both times the park was deserted. I figured it was chilly, so that's why nobody used the park. Well, I shouldn't say nobody used the park because there was evidence of a number of people using the park and that was doggie do-do. Yep, people are not cleaning up after their dogs and I noticed that was still a problem today.

What I saw today was a park that was completely empty, even though it was a sunday afternoon (3pm) and the temperature was 27c. There was nobody enjoying the sunshine, no kids playing in the park and not a single dog walker in sight. I sat alone in that park for about 10 minutes, filming and looking around. In that time I saw 2 guys walk through the park and one lady came in to put birdseed in a tree, then left but nobody was in that park to enjoy the park. I wonder when that will change?

People in Toronto are always demanding more parks, right where parks already exist. They demand parks they themselves have no intention of using. The park on the waterfront was moderately well used today, with people playing sports and cyclists quickly passing through but yet June Collwood Park sits empty.

My thoughts on June Collwood Park are mixed. I like when we take risks and do something different but this park just doesn't work for me. I don't know what it is but this park just doesn't hold my interest. There is no real focal point and the over-all look does not appeal to me. I don't feel good in this park, maybe that's because it was empty and I like parks that are full of life. (meaning people) Of course, the trees are not fully grown/green but I don't think that would make a difference. This park just lacks charm, beauty or something.

I love the parks in London, Paris and New York but for some reason, Toronto does not build the kind of parks I crave. I see lots of new parks going up but when I go there, I'm almost always disappointed. Toronto likes its rugged wilderness parks and its suburban grass & trees parks but we don't build big, city, urban parks. In a city with hundreds of parks (well, over 1000 in fact) why can't we have a handful of highly urban parks? Is that really too much to ask?

I realize Torontonians prefer cottage country to urbanity but I can't be the only person in Toronto who loves hyper urban spaces.

What's an urban park? I don't know the technical definition, I can only tell you what I think an urban park should be.

I like parks with great paving that use patters and colour to enliven the space. I like using trees, bushes and plants/flowers to define spaces and create beautiful vistas and view corridors. I want parks to have groupings with benches clustered close together, so people can inter-act. Toronto almost never does that. We space our benches out, so people cannot communicate with each other. I love parks that have a focal point, whether that be a fountain, art or planters with a beautiful flower display. I also like wrought-iron, heavy fences that define the park and different parts of it. I like indoor spaces and being able to use a park year round. I love cafes and food stands surrounded by patios where people can eat & drink. I like public spaces that have focal points that are conducive to street performers, events and public gatherings. Last but not least, I like parks that give people things to do. Why not put art galleries, museums or amphitheatres in parks? Community centres and libraries should be put in parks too. Then people will have access to washrooms, drinking fountains, indoor spaces to get warm in winter and other amenities most of our parks do not offer now. I stopped at 3 drinking fountains in parks today and not a single one of them was working. Not one! And speaking of fountains, the Salmon Run fountain beside the aquarium, is still NOT working. Funny, the fountains in the CNE are ALL working very well. (all 4 of them) Good on the CNE!

I see these kinds of parks in other cities when I travel. I don't see these parks in Toronto, probably because fountains, art, decorative paving, heavy wooden/metal benches, decorative lamp posts, wrought-iron fences and indoor spaces cost money and we all know, Toronto doesn't have money to spend on that! So I will continue to love my foreign parks and just have to settle for our wilderness (grass & trees) suburban-style parks, Toronto seems to prefer.

I'm still hoping for that one great hyper-urban park in downtown Toronto but I ain't going to hold my breath. I'll be somewhat content just to see Allen Gardens get its old fountain rebuild (if they follow through with that plan) and Berczy Park get an urban makeover, which includes a more elaborate fountain.

Now back to June Collwood Park. I'm curious what other people think about June Collwood Park, now that the trees have sprung leaves and warm weather has arrived? Am I wrong about this park lacking something or just not feeling right? I'm curious to hear what you all think of this park. After the Canada Square/Ontario Square debate, I'm pretty sure, my idea of a great park and most other people's, is quite different but it never hurts to debate the issue.

Sorry about posting on June Collwood Park here but I searched for a June Collwood Park thread and I could not find one, so since this thread has gone on to parks in general, I posted here. If there is a June Callwood thread, you can move it there if you want, mods.

I couldn't agree with you more. We need more urban parks. We have plenty of suburban and nature type parks. What this city needs is more mini central parks like New York. Queens park could be beautiful, as could High Park. It's sad that Toronto has budget for parks but is not using it. I'm hoping this will change as more people live in the city and request more urban parks. My favorite urban parks in Toronto would be the Music Garden and second would be Muir Gardens in North Toronto. High Park and Edwards gardens are nice large parks but they get very crowded on weekends.
 
There are a number of quick ways to find threads, tv.

I typed "Callwood" into the search field in the P&C Forum, and it appeared.

You could go to the map and look for the dot.

You could go to the dataBase page and look for it alphabetically.

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In reply to Tv's excellent post, all I can say is, who doesn't love lounging about on barren concrete and kitty-litter gravel? Seriously, though, why would anyone want to spend more than 5 seconds in this place--it's utterly Spartan and inhumane, like a machine designed it, or someone who's never experienced a second of joy in their life. If hell is paved with good intentions, this is what it looks like.
 
I couldn't agree with you more. We need more urban parks. We have plenty of suburban and nature type parks. What this city needs is more mini central parks like New York. Queens park could be beautiful, as could High Park. It's sad that Toronto has budget for parks but is not using it. I'm hoping this will change as more people live in the city and request more urban parks. My favorite urban parks in Toronto would be the Music Garden and second would be Muir Gardens in North Toronto. High Park and Edwards gardens are nice large parks but they get very crowded on weekends.

I was extremely disappointed by all the proposals for the new Ferry Terminal for this very reason. It's a prime location for an urban square on the water, one which has all the potential in the world as the core of Toronto's waterfront as well as its main transportation hub. It should be resolutely urban with firm and celebrated connections back into the city as well as being connective to the east/west trail system. The framing of the existing condos would help its urbanism, and I think low-rise seasonal commercial storefronts ringing the new square would make a well-defined edge to the square as well as provide all sorts of street-level animation in the form of restaurants, bars and cafes.

For a visioning exercise (i.e. they don't have any funding to build any of the proposals so the competition was clearly just to whet the public's appetite for funding a future development) it was sadly short-sighted and off the mark.
 
I agree with Torontovibe. Toronto needs more "high quality", highly urban parks that people will go out of their way to visit and hang out in. We don't have a shortage of small, neighbourhood parks.
 
You do not need to go to world class cities like New York, London or Paris to find those urban parks you speak of. I think the entire world knows how to build them except for us North Americans/Torontonians.

When I lived in Venezuela, every town or city of whatever size would have a central park, often with a central water fountain or statue, and they were always alive with people, commerce, recreation and attractions.

Plaza Las Heroinas, footsteps from where I resided in Merida, is an excellent example of an urban park that TorontoVibe is describing us lacking.

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

This park was one of 3 major plazas in the downtown core of Merida. All three plazas are attractions of their own and people from all over the town make destinations of it. (Though at the moment they are kinda in disrepair because the Government is beyond crap, but let's put that aside for now. :))

Why don't we build public parks in Toronto that are destinations in of themselves?
 
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One could argue that June Callwood is a very urban space, in the sense of not being naturalistic. I applaud that they tried something different here. Sometimes it works (Yorkville Park or Sugar Beach) and sometimes it doesn't, which sort of goes with the territory of trying something different...

That said, we don't always have to reinvent the wheel. We can turn to more traditional concepts, we just need to focus on doing them well, improving the standards. Fortunately there are some good solid bones out there, i.e. The Grange, Queen's Park, Clarence Square, Allen Gardens etc., and these are all very appropriate spaces for a traditional urban approach and would create a nice counterpoint to some of the more funkier and innovative spaces or some of the wilder and more naturalistic ones. Why not have it all?
 
Designers like reinventing the wheel though. Think the downtown core has somewhat missed the opportunities for traditional formal designs. Can't imagine too many are going that route today.

What is really lacking is community involvement. Love to see community based associations takeover management of several key parks and separate from local BIAs.
 
Here is what I saw when I was there last sunday around 3 pm. That park also has a lot of dog shit, including on parts of the pink rubber, which I assume is the children's area. Why would people take their dogs to poop in a children's play area?

June Collwood 2 .JPG


This park looks nothing like the renderings. It feels very different than I thought it would. I was expecting fun and playful but it did not feel that way. Of course, it was deserted, so maybe with people it would feel differently but where are the people? People wanted this park, so why aren't they using it for more than a doggie washroom? Maybe all they wanted was a place for Fido to poop, after-all? Ah, I'm on to those park advocates now. lol


June Collwood 1 .JPG


Check out the spacing on the benches. I just find that so isolating. Why does Toronto keep doing that when so many other cities provide parks with grouped seating? Does city hall think we are all a bunch of anti-social nerds? lol
 

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As a dog owner, sometimes you can't really control where they decide they go. My dog loves to do her business in-front of the bus stop for example.

The problem is people not picking it up.
 
As a dog owner, sometimes you can't really control where they decide they go. My dog loves to do her business in-front of the bus stop for example.

The problem is people not picking it up.

Well, it's probably not a good idea to walk your dog in the kids area. I have to admit, the dog shit problem was much worse when I was there a month ago, so somebody is making an effort to clean it up. (unlike CityPlace, it seems) I only saw a few turds this time but people really need to take responsibility for their dogs. Get some hidden cameras or something.
 
I have some theories--admittedly I haven't been to the park yet--as to why it might be empty:

1)It's brand new--the trees are puny and provide little shade--let's check back in about 2050....

2)It's surrounded by ****ty architecture--yes those so-called award-winning condos are hideous, depressing, oppressive eyesores.

3)It's in an essentially isolated vertical suburb with no destination retail/cafes nearby, so thus is viewed as a strictly functional space...err dog toilet.

4)Its condo residents are younger condo kids/renters who recognize their ill luck at choosing to live here (cheaper $/sq ft iirc) and tend to flee to hipper 'hoods like T-Bells on weekends off.

5)It's noisy and not exactly in a quiet neighbourhood.

6)There's no free wifi--why hang out in the park if you can't "socialize" via fb or snapchat?

7)Condo kids are as boring as their condos :p

8)It's the wrong place for such an urban park. Being a vertical suburb, I expect the residents really wanted a green space to take their dogs.

9)Architects/designers/developers: Sometimes you really ought to listen to the nimbies

10)It's Toronto
 
Focal Point

I think it's quite simple. There is nothing to look at in that park, you almost instantly feel bored. The problem is not the park itself exactly, it's missing a focal point and any real beauty. The new puny trees don't help much, they will offer some beauty and shade though as they mature and get larger. I know it's cliché, but a beautiful fountain with seating around it or some other focal point in the south end of the park would likely fix much of the problems. It would give people something to look at and encourage people to stay a while.


I have some theories--admittedly I haven't been to the park yet--as to why it might be empty:

1)It's brand new--the trees are puny and provide little shade--let's check back in about 2050....

2)It's surrounded by ****ty architecture--yes those so-called award-winning condos are hideous, depressing, oppressive eyesores.

3)It's in an essentially isolated vertical suburb with no destination retail/cafes nearby, so thus is viewed as a strictly functional space...err dog toilet.

4)Its condo residents are younger condo kids/renters who recognize their ill luck at choosing to live here (cheaper $/sq ft iirc) and tend to flee to hipper 'hoods like T-Bells on weekends off.

5)It's noisy and not exactly in a quiet neighbourhood.

6)There's no free wifi--why hang out in the park if you can't "socialize" via fb or snapchat?

7)Condo kids are as boring as their condos :p

8)It's the wrong place for such an urban park. Being a vertical suburb, I expect the residents really wanted a green space to take their dogs.

9)Architects/designers/developers: Sometimes you really ought to listen to the nimbies

10)It's Toronto
 

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