For the same reason that CN/CP won't sell tracks to private interests and Imperial Oil won't remediate and sell its old properties without a government intervention in-between -- the legal liabilities are potentially crushing.

The only way this was ever going to get done was to have the government provide a legal buffer.

If this is the case than the government, i.e. the taxper (i.e. you and me) are sinking 1 Billion Dollars into land which seems to have no underlying value (in fact it is considered a legal liability) AND we the taxpayer are being saddled with the legal liabily for any claim that might arise for generations to come. This does not seem to be in the public interst. Maybe a better idea would be to turn this tract of land into a giant park.
 
This does not seem to be in the public interst. Maybe a better idea would be to turn this tract of land into a giant park.

How would turning it into a park remove the public liability? Little Timmy plays in the park, gets sick... who do you think is going to get sued? How is it not in the public interest to clean up an underused hazardous area and turn it into a tax generating vibrant community with numerous residences, businesses, public amenities, and possibly tourist attractions? The tax assesses on residents, businesses, and sales in the area will rake in far more money than the $462 million received directly by the agency.

One could argue roads aren't in the public interest with your line of thinking. Spend millions on roads, almost no revenues, and liability if a pothole causes an accident, sign falls down and causes harm, etc.

Investing in infrastructure which keeps the economy running and improving and protecting public quality of life is the business of government last time I checked.
 
How would turning it into a park remove the public liability? Little Timmy plays in the park, gets sick... who do you think is going to get sued? How is it not in the public interest to clean up an underused hazardous area and turn it into a tax generating vibrant community with numerous residences, businesses, public amenities, and possibly tourist attractions? The tax assesses on residents, businesses, and sales in the area will rake in far more money than the $462 million received directly by the agency.

One could argue roads aren't in the public interest with your line of thinking. Spend millions on roads, almost no revenues, and liability if a pothole causes an accident, sign falls down and causes harm, etc.

Investing in infrastructure which keeps the economy running and improving and protecting public quality of life is the business of government last time I checked.
I would imagine that the public liability is related to long term exposure to whatever toxic material is under the soil. If you build homes on top of this then the liability could be huge - if you build a park the potenital liability would be negligible (hard to make the case that little Timmy got cancer from playing occasionally in the park). Don't get me wrong however - I would rather see the land developed as envisioned instead of a park (and I do understand we need to invest in infrastructure - in fact I think we don't invest enough) I just don't see how the taxpayer is going to break even on this project. Yes it would bring in tax revenue for the city however if development does not occur here it will occur somewhere else downtown (provided a market exists) on land that the city has not had to spend billions to clean up.
 
From the Star:

Waterfront renewal's slow drip
Plans are grand, but costs are staggering and much work is to be done before shovels can dig in
Sep 07, 2008 04:30 AM
Kenneth Kidd
Feature Writer

As John Campbell sits in his corner office overlooking Queens Quay, the numbers that spring to his lips are all impressively large, from the more than 800 hectares being redeveloped along Toronto's central waterfront to the thousands of jobs created, the condos yet to be built.

But none is more jaw-dropping than the one he throws out next – $30 billion, as in the likely cost of doing all this.

That's more than twice the $12 billion price tag that Robert Fung's task force came up with eight years ago, a mix of public and private sector spending. (Within two years, the estimate jumped to $17 billion.)

"We've had about 65 per cent inflation over the last five years in hard costs," says Campbell, president of Waterfront Toronto, the agency charged with overseeing it all. "Copper, labour, cement, steel – the costs of construction have gone up dramatically."

Nor will the total tab really be known until the whole redevelopment is complete, probably some 25 years from now. "It's really hard for people to grasp the enormous size of this project," says Campbell.

That scale, and the amount of time required, does little to allay the deep-seated public cynicism around such renewal projects – talked about in reports and task forces spanning decades with, until now, relatively little to show for it.

"It's frustrating for the public," agrees Campbell. "And we're as frustrated as anybody."

But it's largely the nature of the beast. In the real estate world, a typical construction project might take seven years, but the first four or five are consumed in planning, public consultations, environmental assessments, zoning changes and other regulatory hurdles.

"The public only thinks it starts when shovels hit the ground," says Campbell. "That's almost the end of the project, time-wise."

That pace is worth noting as other communities around the GTA embark on waterfront redevelopments that, while smaller in scale, are often at an even earlier stage.

In Oshawa, for instance, the city and Ottawa are still haggling about how much federal land in the harbour should even be turned over for local redevelopment.

And in Mississauga, a citizens' group came up with a waterfront plan that included a mixed-used community, efforts partly aimed at stopping Queen's Park from replacing the Lakeview coal-fired generating station with a gas one.

Success came this summer when the province announced it would not put a new generating station there. But the city must still figure out if it has enough money to buy a key parcel of land from Ontario Power Generation, and Queen's Park has already said it won't be making any cash contribution.

Until those issues are resolved, none of the official planning can be launched in earnest, from city oversight of the process to zoning issues and environmental assessments.

WHEN CAMPBELL arrived at Waterfront Toronto five years ago from the private sector, one of his first shocks came courtesy of environmental assessments.

He wanted to know how many would be required.

"The staff went away and came back a week later and said 391," recalls Campbell, whose first reaction was: "Oh my God, that's enough for an army of consultants for a century. I think we've boiled it down to around 65 now, but they are time-consuming."

Waterfront Toronto's funding formula also dictates a more measured pace than voters and taxpayers might think ideal. When it was created, Waterfront Toronto was promised $1.5 billion from all three levels of government, but that money flows over the better part of a decade, not upfront.

"In a sense, you want to grow fast," says Campbell. "But the economic model is such that, the governments have given us $1.5 billion in seed capital plus the land and we're to invest in land, roll it over, make a profit so we can reinvest. Under the model, you don't want to go and be too aggressive, (move) too quickly, because you deflate the land value."

So far, Waterfront Toronto has spent about $300 million, half of that in hard costs like construction, but a lot of this is early infrastructure, which largely goes unnoticed.

Consider what's been happening at the West Don Lands project, an area from Parliament St. to the Don River bounded by the Distillery District and rail corridor to the south, and to the north by Front St., Eastern Ave. and then King St. as you move closer to the Don.

Much of the area is brownfields – former industrial areas – but plans call for major housing developments and the extension of Front St., turning it into a grand boulevard leading to an 8-hectare Don River Park next to the water.

That part of the precinct is prone to flooding in extreme weather, so Waterfront Toronto is in the midst of building a berm close to the river.

But before this could be done, a rail bridge over the Don had to be lengthened. That's because the new berm would channel a wall of water downstream during an extreme flood, potentially washing out the shorter-spanned, existing rail bridge. The cost of extending the bridge, including land acquisition and enhancements to its pedestrian underpass: $19 million.

Then there's the $43 million being spent on everything from a massive new sewer main to demolishing old buildings and grading the West Don Lands site.

None of which exactly dances to the top of the public imagination when it comes to beautifying a derelict part of town.

JOHN CAMPBELL has parked his car on, yes, the south sidewalk of Queens Quay, so he and a visitor can hop out to look at the new "Wave Deck" at the Lower Spadina Slip. It's a multi-layered, undulating structure meant to extend the sidewalk out over the water – a boardwalk with a funhouse sensibility.

It will have its formal unveiling this month, the first of a handful of sidewalk additions planned along the waterfront. "Things are really starting to happen," says Campbell.

What isn't happening, or at least not yet, is an ambitious plan to convert half of Queens Quay itself into a kind of linear park. The street would be reduced from four lanes of traffic to two, with the southern half becoming a tree-lined promenade for pedestrians separated from the road by the streetcar line.

But the environmental assessment is still underway, and there is a host of unresolved complications. Part of the plan, for instance, involves extending the streetcar line east of Bay St. But where does the line rise to ground level from the current tunnel that runs from Union Station? In front of the Westin hotel? Past the Redpath sugar refinery?

"There are four different locations, all with very different costs," says Campbell.

Another wrinkle: If all the vehicle traffic is on the north side, then anyone travelling east and making a right-hand turn would have to cross the streetcar tracks. To accommodate this, the streetcar would have to have additional stops, slowing the line down.

With none of that formally resolved, timing remains problematic, though Campbell professes himself optimistic. "It should be phenomenal," he says. "This will become a landmark for the city."

It would also help alleviate another issue of public perception. Sections of the lakefront often seem like they belong to neighbouring condominiums, even though they're technically public.

Turning half of Queens Quay into a linear park – along with consistent signage and street furniture – would help make the area seem more public, which, for Campbell, can't happen soon enough.

Nor can a decision (finally) on what to do with the Gardiner.

Campbell still dreams of tearing down the expressway, which many see as a barrier to the waterfront.

Whether the city has either the political will or the fiscal fortitude to deal with the Gardiner once and for all remains an open question.

"Incrementalism seems to be easier to do and that makes it politically easier to do," says Campbell.

"What we're suggesting for the waterfront is a big, bold move. It would be quite a change, quite a change."

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/492229

AoD
 
The TWRC has been an irresponsible steward from the first day and this annoucement is just stating that all their previous promises are not funded. But of course they never where. It easy to be popular when you promise things you can't deliver. That has been their game plan. Naturally time will reveal the truth and it is just starting now.

They claim work will "continue" on the east bay front parks. No work has even started!!
 
Lots o' stuff getting done -- the official 'get off WT's back' glass-half-full post!

Thx for posting the Star article. As an avid user of the Don paths for jogging and the King Street car to get to work, I've been watching this project get underway for a long time now.

I must admit that I hadn't realized the re-do of the railroad bridge was part of the floodplain plan -- I just thought they finally got around to getting rid of the stupid-ass bike underpass which was underwater in the spring.

Anyway -- the railway underpass for the Don bridge, the (still blocked) underpass to West Don Lands, and the upgrading of the bikepath has been done and done well for a year + now. The WDL berm construction/sewer pipe laying/etc. etc. etc. has been going full bore all summer. I would bet you'll see a pre-construction sales office for the first set of condos by spring at the latest. Overall, WDL is looking good.

And, for anyone who hasn't been to Harbourfront or Sunnyside Beach in the last couple of years, the boardwalk, finger piers, and other improvements (HtO, the Music Garden growing in, the Irish memorial, the Marilyn Bell Park and canoe race course, re-opening the Palais Royale, etc. etc. etc.) are a great place for a walk or bike ride.

You can't say that Waterfront Toronto did this on its own, or even had any hand in some of the things that make it a better, more vibrant place (the condos and therefore more people around, e.g.), but they're doing a pretty good job these last couple of years in getting good stuff in place.

Looking forward to the day I get to ride through that tunnel into WDL and go to the berm/park with the kids.
 
RRR, I totally agree that progress has been made and that the central waterfront is busier and more attractive then ever. The issue at hand however is does the decade that has passed and hundreds of millions of dollars spent to date represent sound progress or borderline incompetence? Likely neither, but it's hard to say.
 
I would imagine that the public liability is related to long term exposure to whatever toxic material is under the soil. If you build homes on top of this then the liability could be huge - if you build a park the potenital liability would be negligible (hard to make the case that little Timmy got cancer from playing occasionally in the park). Don't get me wrong however - I would rather see the land developed as envisioned instead of a park (and I do understand we need to invest in infrastructure - in fact I think we don't invest enough) I just don't see how the taxpayer is going to break even on this project. Yes it would bring in tax revenue for the city however if development does not occur here it will occur somewhere else downtown (provided a market exists) on land that the city has not had to spend billions to clean up.

No, but that isn't the point! The point isn't to not be sued, the point is to create a new well-planned community on old industrial land without little Timmy getting cancer. Public safety shouldn't be about nickels and dimes. If we're going to use the space, we sure as hell better invest in the proper clean-up, because thing happen. See: Walkerton. See: Maple Leaf listeriosis. The point isn't that people lost money, or got sued, but the point was that people died!
 
Soil remediation does not automatically mean the presence of carcinogens.
 
Somehow I doubt that Tom Falus was so caught of guard when purchasing the site for The Foundry Lofts.
 
This just posted on Waterfront Toronto site - Fall Newsletter

Update on Construction

More than 250 trucks a day are bringing soil to the West Don Lands to help build the Flood Protection Landform; an extensive engineered berm that will provide flood protection to the surrounding area. This part of the West Don Lands development is located on land built on the old Don River bed and underlying soils are very spongy. The earthworks included the requirement to “wick” away moisture and secure the base is 90 percent complete. The landform, being constructed by our partners at the Ontario Realty Corporation, will also be the future home of Don River Park. Work on the reconstruction of a major lower level interceptor sewer is also nearing completion.

This fall, construction of the municipal infrastructure required in the West Don Lands is set to begin at Mill Street just east of Cherry Street.

First Phase of West Don Lands Development

River City, the first West Don Lands development is moving along. The team of Urban Capital Property Group of Toronto and Redquartz Development of Dublin was selected to lead the 850 unit development project. Both companies bring local and international interest and perspective to the development, a unique and bold architectural response to the site, and a deep commitment to sustainability.

River City will be built in the area that runs from King Street in the north, to the new Don River Park in the south, and from St. Lawrence Street in the west to Bayview Avenue in the east.

The River City team will be making its second presentation to the Waterfront Design Review Panel in October for the first two buildings in phase one of development. The sales launch for River City is expected early in 2009. Construction is scheduled to begin in 2010, and first phase of occupancy in 2011. Site signage and a marketing website will be up and! running in the coming weeks.

Toronto Community Housing Corporation (TCHC), the developer of the 130 units of affordable housing presented their design to the Waterfront Design Review Panel in July. TCHC was granted approval for site plan application for fall 2008 with construction to begin summer 2009. Designing the mixed market and affordable housing units is Baird Sampson Neuert Architects, working with The Daniels Corporation as the developer partner.
 
October update:

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/newsletter/viewnewsletter.php?id=48ef6cd226edf&template=5

We here a lot of talk about new *city* developments in the suburbs but really I think this one has the potential to take the cake in the long run ... we'll have to see how it turns out.

We should know soon enough with East Bayfront the rest will take a while.

Is there any way we can combine all there waterfront threads into one?
i.e. east bayfront, lower donlands, portlands ....

Does anyone have any more information on the progress of East Bayfront less Corus?
 
The TWRC has been an irresponsible steward from the first day and this annoucement is just stating that all their previous promises are not funded. But of course they never where. It easy to be popular when you promise things you can't deliver. That has been their game plan. Naturally time will reveal the truth and it is just starting now.

They claim work will "continue" on the east bay front parks. No work has even started!!

I don't know why you say the TWRC is irresponsible because they are not funded. To a very large extent, the TWRC is not a self-funding organization (and certainly not in these early stages).

Why would anyone be surprised that the dollar figure has doubled? Just look at the costs of construction these days. Plus, the cost of public projects are all too often low-balled in order to get them moving.
 
I went to the public meeting last night at the St. Lawrence Hall, and the various materials have been posted online. Of particular note are the main display panels and the handouts.

It was quite a big turnout, around 75 people. It seemed like a lot of the people in attendance were there to grind an axe (especially environmental concerns), or were planning nuts who were interested in the transit and other plans (I'd probably fall into this group).

The people seem to be genuinely trying to build a complete neighborhood, with talk about not zoning blocks as commercial or residential, name dropping Jane Jacobs, targeting 25,000 residents and 10,000 jobs. I overheard that if the economy recovers, they might have something built in the NW corner (West of East Bayfront) around 2010. They also are trying to integrate the neighborhood with the naturalized mouth of the Don.

However, one thing that bothered me is that they are going ahead as if the Gardiner will remain up. I hope that if the Gardiner is taken down it would not delay these plans too much!

The other big conflict I saw is that it seems that while the team mentioned multiple times that they were open to suggestions, it seems like they had invested a lot of effort and time into the existing plans and were only receptive to minor tweaks. This was my first public meeting I attended in person, but I wonder if this is how they will respond to (or even determine public interest in) major changes.
 

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