Northern Light said:
Soooo

The entire complex, having or less reached substantial completion sits empty of anyone but construction and security personnel.

Once home to 4,000 provincial staff, all currently relocated offsite; and supposed to allow for 6,000 upon completion of the renos...........alternative locations under lease are having those leases extended by months or longer.

So what gives you ask?

www.thestar.com

Old elevators are foiling a plan to renovate a historic Toronto building — and leaving 6,000 people in limbo

Persistent snags in getting elevator shafts up to modern building codes in the 53-year-old Macdonald Block have foiled plans to repatriate 6,000 government and political staff from leased offices elsewhere.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Well it turns out, when they started this project, they didn't, it seems, properly assess bringing the elevators up to code in respect of fireproofing.

No, they didn't forget about them, and they did modify them.............but upon completion of those works and testing, it turns out they are non-compliant!

So now they have to fully replace 439 elevator entrances (38 elevators x number of floors).

Someone's head needs to roll for this (proverbially, of course).

View attachment 554547

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View attachment 554548

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How does one discover this at or near the end of years-long construction process, which followed a years-long planning process? Seriously.
Click to expand...
...the proverbial oversight, of course! >.<
 
Northern Light said:
How does one discover this at or near the end of years-long construction process, which followed a years-long planning process? Seriously.
Click to expand...

We used to have a largely merit based society but it's more about who you know these days. Countless organizations are chocked full of incompetent people, style over substance, and high earners who can't put a proposal together without the help of Grammarly. What's surprising is that we don't see more 'train wrecks'.
 
Last edited:
Northern Light said:
Soooo

The entire complex, having or less reached substantial completion sits empty of anyone but construction and security personnel.

Once home to 4,000 provincial staff, all currently relocated offsite; and supposed to allow for 6,000 upon completion of the renos...........alternative locations under lease are having those leases extended by months or longer.

So what gives you ask?

www.thestar.com

Old elevators are foiling a plan to renovate a historic Toronto building — and leaving 6,000 people in limbo

Persistent snags in getting elevator shafts up to modern building codes in the 53-year-old Macdonald Block have foiled plans to repatriate 6,000 government and political staff from leased offices elsewhere.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Well it turns out, when they started this project, they didn't, it seems, properly assess bringing the elevators up to code in respect of fireproofing.

No, they didn't forget about them, and they did modify them.............but upon completion of those works and testing, it turns out they are non-compliant!

So now they have to fully replace 439 elevator entrances (38 elevators x number of floors).

Someone's head needs to roll for this (proverbially, of course).

View attachment 554547

**

View attachment 554548

**

How does one discover this at or near the end of years-long construction process, which followed a years-long planning process? Seriously.
Click to expand...
Wow i've got to get me a job inside the provincial government.

One can literally be the worst project/time manager ever, lack basic observational/organizational/arithmetic skills, screw up catastrophically X amount of times, make the government spend hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars more because of your screw up, and in the end get paid handsomely/never get fired for it.
 
Amare said:
Wow i've got to get me a job inside the provincial government.

One can literally be the worst project/time manager ever, lack basic observational/organizational/arithmetic skills, screw up catastrophically X amount of times, make the government spend hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars more because of your screw up, and in the end get paid handsomely/never get fired for it.
Click to expand...
It's everyone's dream job - coast by with ironclad job security and a fat pension to boot when it's all said and done. It's no wonder it's difficult to get in there...
 
As long as I can remember, job security and benefits were always better in the public sector. The sacrifice was lower wages. Full benefits are now non existence in the private sector and most of the wage growth is in the public sector. It's not an ideal economic situation for Canada.

Several abrasive teachers were removed from the my kids school during their tenure. Two were transferred to poorer districts. The most abrasive of all was promoted to an administrative position. I'm not surprised by stories like the MacDonald Block with my personal experience bias.
 
Northern Light said:
Soooo

The entire complex, having or less reached substantial completion sits empty of anyone but construction and security personnel.

Once home to 4,000 provincial staff, all currently relocated offsite; and supposed to allow for 6,000 upon completion of the renos...........alternative locations under lease are having those leases extended by months or longer.

So what gives you ask?

www.thestar.com

Old elevators are foiling a plan to renovate a historic Toronto building — and leaving 6,000 people in limbo

Persistent snags in getting elevator shafts up to modern building codes in the 53-year-old Macdonald Block have foiled plans to repatriate 6,000 government and political staff from leased offices elsewhere.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Well it turns out, when they started this project, they didn't, it seems, properly assess bringing the elevators up to code in respect of fireproofing.

No, they didn't forget about them, and they did modify them.............but upon completion of those works and testing, it turns out they are non-compliant!

So now they have to fully replace 439 elevator entrances (38 elevators x number of floors).

Someone's head needs to roll for this (proverbially, of course).

View attachment 554547

**

View attachment 554548

**

How does one discover this at or near the end of a years-long construction process, which followed a years-long planning process? Seriously.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty major mistake that it doesn't look like PCL is responsible for: the article hints the government will be covering the cost.

Out of curiosity, is this something an MZO could solve the cheap way by simply stating that section of building code doesn't apply to this lot?
 
rbt said:
That's a pretty major mistake that it doesn't look like PCL is responsible for: the article hints the government will be covering the cost.

Out of curiosity, is this something an MZO could solve the cheap way by simply stating that section of building code doesn't apply to this lot?
Click to expand...

Can an MZO exempt buildings from the Building Code? I don't recall ever hearing of such a case, but I would leave it to others to comment, lest I find myself surprised.
 
rbt said:
That's a pretty major mistake that it doesn't look like PCL is responsible for: the article hints the government will be covering the cost.

Out of curiosity, is this something an MZO could solve the cheap way by simply stating that section of building code doesn't apply to this lot?
Click to expand...
The fear of lawsuits from any injuries/deaths will prevent any exceptions from being made, too risky.
Amare said:
Wow i've got to get me a job inside the provincial government.

One can literally be the worst project/time manager ever, lack basic observational/organizational/arithmetic skills, screw up catastrophically X amount of times, make the government spend hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars more because of your screw up, and in the end get paid handsomely/never get fired for it.
Click to expand...
I assure you that this mistake was almost certainly made by an overpaid private sector contractor or consultant.
 
I wonder if it was a city building inspector that told the province they messed up?
 
Northern Light said:
Can an MZO exempt buildings from the Building Code? I don't recall ever hearing of such a case, but I would leave it to others to comment, lest I find myself surprised.
Click to expand...

I didn't really understand the details of the Eglinton/Yonge kerfuffle (5 years ago?) but I thought one of the things they did was reduce natural light requirements to below the Building Code minimum.
 
“The scope of outstanding work relates to steel beam being treated with additional fireproofing material to ensure the elevator shaft enclosures are in compliance with building code requirements,” he added.

A major criterion on the project was due to its heritage status, significant design restrictions were in place to limit the extent of rebuild so nothing protrudes into the visible spaces any more than what the original design details had achieved, while at the same time ensuring any sensitive areas that involves fire rating was adhered to. The cores of all 4 towers are plain ol'steel with a bunch of spray fire proofing and had original elevator door frames that couldn't be replaced and new design details forced to work with what was there and to meet code resulting in some abnormal or unorthodox results which could only be proven thru testing. There is only so much the project teams, various consultants with heritage/code/fire suppression etc can do when working with a heritage building with layers of strict rules and limited flexibility and it is likely project leaders within had flagged this as a possible risk earlier on. The steel beams framing around the shaft is another matter, where trying to design in 21st century elevator systems to fit within a 53 year old shaft, (whose banks are varying sizes across all 4 towers without allowance to enlarge or have tight structural clearances) is mondo tricky.

The positive is that some buildings may be easier to fix than others because the banks vary in size, and if there is some new standardized detail that works with a brand new frame that can get through the internal vetting and satisfy enough of the heritage compliance and meet or exceed fire/smoke testing performance, assuming material procurement isn't delayed or other unforseen elements, the trades can build this and repeat it 438 times across the 4 towers where maybe at least 1 of the 'easier' towers can get occupancy sooner than the rest. They tried to go for all 4+podium but that's not realistic.
The podium levels also have elevators along the flanks but they serve underground parking, those elevators and their lobbies are really historic and have differing conditions than at the towers floors (starting on L3) as the podium ground is all concrete, but 2nd floor is steel. If those elevators are compliant or easier to repair since they are in pairs and span like 4 floors, maybe occupancy can be granted for the podium levels where the office spaces within can move in sooner than the first tower tenants..
 
This park on the corner was an outstanding public space before the building reno and it appears will remain so. My only design complaint is that I wish there was another entry/exit point midway along the wall here on Bay St,.but that's minor.

20240916_125155_HDR_(1).jpg


20240916_125021_HDR_(1).jpg
 
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