nfitz said:
I thought the latter 2 were always above ground. I was discussing the old City of Toronto.

Despite Metrolinx propaganda, they aren't going through Leslieville anymore, and are skirting the edge of it. I was thinking mostly of the West Donlands, East Harbour, Riverdale, and Liberty Village areas ... which are planned to be far denser than the McCowan/Danforth corridor from Ellesmere to Eglinton.
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The line is still travelling in a rail corridor, where development physically can't happen, and unlike the Stouffville Line corridor, the LSW corridor is in a prime location to be built around and have TOD, whereas the Stouffville Line runs in the middle of an industrial park where the only passengers it will serve are through bus connections and park and rides, similar to the current Scarborough RT. People keep forgetting that there is a reason why we're abandoning the RT, that being the rail corridor is not good for local transportation, and the SSE has a much higher potential for spawning development and to be actually used.
 
ARG1 said:
The line is still travelling in a rail corridor, where development physically can't happen, and unlike the Stouffville Line corridor, the LSW corridor is in a prime location to be built around and have TOD, whereas the Stouffville Line runs in the middle of an industrial park where the only passengers it will serve are through bus connections and park and rides, similar to the current Scarborough RT. People keep forgetting that there is a reason why we're abandoning the RT, that being the rail corridor is not good for local transportation, and the SSE has a much higher potential for spawning development and to be actually used.
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There we have it again - the chosen alignment for SSE has nothing to do with TODs (which is laughable for what "development opportunities" it offers at the one intermediate station before SSC); if you want to pay 6B for that kind of development potential you'd be laughed out of town.

AoD
 
ARG1 said:
Yes it should be elevated, too bad this is what they made during the liberal era:
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Well, DRL was something else during the "Liberal Era" too, it didn't stop this government from choosing something else eh? I mean, Mlinx had a whole blog entry extoling the virtues of elevation as a function of that choice afterall. And yes, ECW was such a priority to the point where the government (through IO and Mlinx) rushed through the tunneling portion of the contract despite of how "world class" elevating transit lines is. You and I both know that this government just didn't want elevated lines where there is political price for them, so let's not sugar coat it with this BS.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
There we have it again - the chosen alignment for SSE has nothing to do with TODs (which is laughable for what "development opportunities" it offers at the one intermediate station before SSC); if you want to pay 6B for that kind of development potential you'd be laughed out of town.

AoD
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1 good station with room for infills is better than absolutely nothing at all.
 
ARG1 said:
1 good station with room for infills is better than absolutely nothing at all.
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You want to compare the redevelopability of an entire stretch of 1-2s industrial land (some municipally owned) to a ravine site surrounded by mostly SFH? At an extra capital cost of what? We have been through this argument before.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Well, DRL was something else during the "Liberal Era" too, it didn't stop this government from choosing something else eh? I mean, Mlinx had a whole blog entry extoling the virtues of elevation as a function of that choice afterall. And yes, ECW was such a priority to the point where the government (through IO and Mlinx) rushed through the tunneling portion of the contract despite of how "world class" elevating transit lines is. You and I both know that this government just didn't want elevated lines where there is political price for them, so let's not sugar coat it with this BS.

AoD
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Let me ask again though, does the mistake of one alignment justify doing the exact same mistake somewhere else? If we have one alignment where Metrolinx is being smart, and one alignment where Metrolinx is being stupid, that's still a 50% success rate. Should the Eglinton Line be elevated west of Mt. Dennis? Yes. Should the Ontario Line be elevated in the rail corridors and Thorncliffe Park? Also yes. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
 
ARG1 said:
Let me ask again though, does the mistake of one alignment justify doing the exact same mistake somewhere else? If we have one alignment where Metrolinx is being smart, and one alignment where Metrolinx is being stupid, that's still a 50% success rate. Should the Eglinton Line be elevated west of Mt. Dennis? Yes. Should the Ontario Line be elevated in the rail corridors and Thorncliffe Park? Also yes. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
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Don't give me this two wrong garbage - when you have an organization responsible for delivery pushing one for its' supposed benefits while pretending that the other is somehow "beyond" choosing wisely (despite being a line that will carry far fewer riders). An organization like that have no currency and skin in this debate - much less moral high ground. In fact, this is an organization that will continue to do wrong precisely because of this reason.

AoD
 
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robmausser said:
Lol everytime I see this rendering it makes me laugh. 4 stairwells on every corner for one stop? Nowhere is this ever done.

Purposeful overkill.
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I present to you the under construction Riyadh Metro. It uses a modular design where each station has one to two elevated concourses that can have pedestrian bridges attached to them. Each pedestrian bridge has an elevator, escalator, and stairs. Stations have 2 to 4 entrances. The modular design of the bridges makes them easily connectable to development, and also for an entrance to snake between existing buildings to a consutrcutable entrance location. This was designed by Parkins & Will, who designed stations for Ottawa and Vancouver, and the REM in Montreal.

Fun fact: they are building 6 lines with 85 stations, 176km at once as a starter system. To do that they needed to get 3 consortiums contracted at the same time. Alstom, Bombardier, and Seimens are each in a consortium. The design of the vehicles and stations was purposely unified. But each consortium will use their own signalling system, rolling stock, and separate maintenance facilities. The trains probably can't be moved between lines.
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Adjei said:
The City of Toronto and the TTC have favoured the all underground version of the SSE since 2013 and in 2017 even voted to make it a one stop underground subway. Metrolinx took over the project after Doug Ford annouced the Get Ontario moving initiatives in April of 2019. Why didn't the City of Toronto or the TTC propose other alternatives if they were so viable all those years they were in charge of planning for this line. Expecting Metrolinx to come in, in a year and propose another alternative considering the political hot potato this subway line is, is laughable.
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The City of Toronto and TTC did have another solution - one that was fully funded and ready to go prior to 2010. Ford and his brother decided to make up nonsense about Scarborough 'deserving' subways and a make-believe plan by the 'downtown elites' to tear up the roads and put streetcars everywhere.

The well was poisoned.

Very few politicians will support an LRT in Scarborough because it's not politically advantageous, not because it's the best course of action.

The city also had a well thought out plan for the the first phase of the DRL - one immediately trashed by Ford.

If he wants to build SUBWAYS SUBWAYS SUBWAYS everywhere at least he could be consistent and make sure money is invested in the line that desperately needs the most capacity.
 
ARG1 said:
The line is still travelling in a rail corridor, where development physically can't happen...
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There's places where they need to expropriate additional land outside the existing corridor - including existing houses.

While this isn't a bit surprise at stations - it is a bit of a surprise between stations.
 
robmausser said:
Lol everytime I see this rendering it makes me laugh. 4 stairwells on every corner for one stop? Nowhere is this ever done.

Purposeful overkill.
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It was actually a clever design. It avoided a mezzanine level, thus an additional change in grade, and still let each platform directly access both sides of the street, and thus both bus directions. I actually came up with this idea for this line in my imaginings. It would have been quite simple and economical to build.
 
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