afransen said:
Of course it was ridiculed by transit professionals. It is a challenge to the orthodoxy. They would have ridiculed it regardless of its performance. All of this is quite aside from the tunneling technology. TBC is not working on hyperloop at all.
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There is nothing new about Musk's tunneling technology other than smaller, less safe tunnels. And the fact that the LVCC loop has taken 2.5 years to construct all of 2 miles of tunnel should indicate that there are no innovations.

On TBC and Loop and Hyperloop, Musk is all transit-diverting vapourware.
 
syn said:
Coming up with a different plan does not absolve Metrolinx of the responsibility to properly work with the community in implementing these plans.
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What more do you think Metrolinx has to do?

Should Metrolinx and other public agencies be crowdsourcing their engineering? How much more does Metrolinx have to work with the community on these plans before you can admit that the NIMBY's are being NIMBY's?
 
t54zhao said:
There is nothing new about Musk's tunneling technology other than smaller, less safe tunnels. And the fact that the LVCC loop has taken 2.5 years to construct all of 2 miles of tunnel should indicate that there are no innovations.

On TBC and Loop and Hyperloop, Musk is all transit-diverting vapourware.
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People had similar vapourware derisions about Tesla and Space-X.
 
picard102 said:
People had similar vapourware derisions about Tesla and Space-X.
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How’s that full self driving going?


afransen said:
Of course it was ridiculed by transit professionals. It is a challenge to the orthodoxy. They would have ridiculed it regardless of its performance. All of this is quite aside from the tunneling technology. TBC is not working on hyperloop at all.
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This comment would make sense, had the criticisms from transit professionals not been proven absolutely correct.
 
afransen said:
Of course it was ridiculed by transit professionals. It is a challenge to the orthodoxy. They would have ridiculed it regardless of its performance. All of this is quite aside from the tunneling technology. TBC is not working on hyperloop at all.
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Orthodoxy or no, he couldn't demonstrate it is superior to existing solutions. That's the damning part - especially coming from him, where he was able to do so in other settings. As of right now, it is definitely more Elon the salesman than Elon the engineer.

AoD
 
The level of criticism for Musk's tunnels is a little uncalled for if you ask me.

Musk has a proven record of major innovations - Tesla has upended the entire automotive industry in a way that hasn't occurred in generations, and SpaceX has cut costs for space access dramatically and continues to do so.

Innovation takes time, and iterations. The first Tesla was a small sports car based off of a Lotus Elise that had an extremely, extremely niche market. Everyone doubted it's ability to impact the auto market. But the aim was never a niche electric sports car - it was a $35k electric sedan. Which tesla has made now.

Over time they have matured into extremely competitive products.

Las Vegas is just the first iteration - the Tesla Roadster. Lets see how it evolves over time. The concept as presented has lots of potential, they just have to get there. If they build a mini-bus vehicle that can be used in the tunnels, can get costs down to what they claim, and can improve travel speeds and throughputs in the tunnels with effective signaling systems, none of which are huge leaps alone, it has a lot of potential. Much like the Tesla Roadster, the aim isn't a niche "teslas in tunnels" service - it's just the stepping stone.
 
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jelbana said:
Potential for what? Any throughput that a minibus vehicle can achieve is no better than the equivalent by a longer vehicle at less frequency? What benefit does reducing the vehicle size to vastly smaller pods have in increasing throughput? The only reason he is using smaller "vehciles" is because it directly ties with being able to sell individual vehicles to the masses. He has no desire to build public transportation systems as his desire is to sell you a car.
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It's not trying to be a one for one subway replacement. I think we should put a pin in this or take it elsewhere, not to drag this too far O/T from OL.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Las Vegas is just the first iteration - the Tesla Roadster. Lets see how it evolves over time. The concept as presented has lots of potential, they just have to get there. If they build a mini-bus vehicle that can be used in the tunnels, can get costs down to what they claim, and can improve travel speeds and throughputs in the tunnels with effective signaling systems, none of which are huge leaps alone, it has a lot of potential. Much like the Tesla Roadster, the aim isn't a niche "teslas in tunnels" service - it's just the stepping stone.
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Yea, and if these mini-bus vehicles were to somehow be coupled together, I bet the capacity would be even higher!

I'm sorry, but after the Telsa's full self driving shenanigans, I've totally lost respect for Musk. Everyone in the industry knew his self driving plans were delusional from Day 1. Musk knew it himself too, unless he himself is totally self-delusional (something I wouldn't discount). Keep in mind I say this as someone who is a rather big fan of Tesla, minus their reckless self-driving delusions.
 
afransen said:
It's not trying to be a one for one subway replacement. I think we should put a pin in this or take it elsewhere, not to drag this too far O/T from OL.
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Moving this here:

The Coming Disruption of Transport

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/22/mit-task-force-predicts-fully-autonomous-vehicles-wont-arrive-for-at-least-10-years/
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
 
t54zhao said:
What more do you think Metrolinx has to do?

Should Metrolinx and other public agencies be crowdsourcing their engineering? How much more does Metrolinx have to work with the community on these plans before you can admit that the NIMBY's are being NIMBY's?
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The government and Metrolinx should've consulted before unveiling and unilaterally imposing plans on communities.

This is why the situation is what it is.

It's also why the original DRL plan had near universal acceptance.
 
syn said:
The government and Metrolinx should've consulted before unveiling and unilaterally imposing plans on communities.

This is why the situation is what it is.
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Yes, 100% agree
syn said:
It's also why the original DRL plan had near universal acceptance.
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Not fully, there was still NIMBY "I don't want Subway trains underneath my back yard" / "no to Relief Line gentrification" etc comments
 
syn said:
The government and Metrolinx should've consulted before unveiling and unilaterally imposing plans on communities.

This is why the situation is what it is.

It's also why the original DRL plan had near universal acceptance.
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Hard to consult without a proposal.
 
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