[Amare]

Well David Miller's whole argument is moot, because we wouldnt have had to spend so much MORE money on it had he actually advocated for the project to be built.

I have my doubts if that wouldve done much though since we were in the era where McGuinty/Wynne loved to come out with beautiful lines on a map and spend countless years studying, and studying, and studying them until the sun shined no more. Not to mention all the useless Ministers of Transportation we had in that era.

 

[nfitz]

Well David Miller's whole argument is moot, because we wouldnt have had to spend so much MORE money on it had he actually advocated for the project to be built.

We've been over this before - he did advocate, and vote in favour of the beginning of the DRL studies. From day one, Transit City was never going south of Danforth. And the idea was, to get Transit City being built quickly, with 7 of the 8 routes being quicly constructable - as we've seen with the Transit City lines on Eglnton East in Scarborough and on Finch West.

I've previously referenecd the relevant documents proving this - so why the fake news?

 

[W. K. Lis]

They are currently installing streetcar tracks on the north side of Exhibition Place between the current Exhibition Loop (and Ontario Line's Exhibition Station) and the Dufferin Gates loop. Pencilled in is an extension of the 509 HARBOURFRONT streetcar westward. Alternatively, they could have a return of the 507 LONG BRANCH streetcar, but have it terminate at the Ontario Line's Exhibition Station. Needs an improvement, by either a widening of King Street West or addition of automobile left turn lanes at King Street West & Jameson Avenue.

From 2019, link.

The above mentioned buidlings have already been demolished.

 

[generalcanada]

They are currently installing streetcar tracks on the north side of Exhibition Place between the current Exhibition Loop (and Ontario Line's Exhibition Station) and the Dufferin Gates loop. Pencilled in is an extension of the 509 HARBOURFRONT streetcar westward. Alternatively, they could have a return of the 507 LONG BRANCH streetcar, but have it terminate at the Ontario Line's Exhibition Station. Needs an improvement, by either a widening of King Street West or addition of automobile left turn lanes at King Street West & Jameson Avenue.

From 2019, link.

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The above mentioned buidlings have already been demolished.

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while this was done, Last we heard this was on hold pending the exhibition station construction being finalized

 

[nfitz]

They are currently installing streetcar tracks on the north side of Exhibition Place between the current Exhibition Loop (and Ontario Line's Exhibition Station) and the Dufferin Gates loop.

I'd express complete disbelief - though I was wondering why there's a new construction fence all along the south platform at Exhibition, west of the station building. Though I'd think it's about the new station construction.

Is there any evidence that the new streetcar track installation is under way - other than some demolition - which has been widespread for the new station construction.

while this was done, Last we heard this was on hold pending the exhibition station construction being finalized

Haven't they already awarded the contract to build the new station? They must be very close to finalizing the station footprint, if it's not already finalized already.

 

[robmausser]

while this was done, Last we heard this was on hold pending the exhibition station construction being finalized

Yeah thats what I heard too.

 

[Alex L]

This plan to extend tracks west. Seems like a bad idea to me. Is that still policy? I hope they drop that completely.

It seems straightforward to me to just extend the Ontario line to Dufferin and build a station there at the existing loop. They already plan tail tracks through there. They could run at the level of the train tracks and build a station under the existing loop.

A streetcar line through Ex Place doesn't serve any demand. BMO is served, the Coliseum and Enbridge buildings are served already at Exhibition loop and Exhibition station. It takes land from Ex Place and has to dodge/navigate the Dufferin Gates. I don't see any demand to go from Harbourfront west to Mimico on streetcars. So it is an unnecessary spend. Is it just a way to connect the lines so that cars can go to the Roncy barn? Was there a business case attached to the plan?

And, if you were to extend the Ontario Line west, I see no point in extending the streetcars further west of Dufferin. There are already streetcars on The Queensway and they could be accessed at Roncy. The strip along Humber Bay is already full of transportation uses. And if it went up Dufferin or Roncy it would connect to the Bloor line, providing a way to Ex Place from the west.

 

[kotsy]

I'd express complete disbelief - though I was wondering why there's a new construction fence all along the south platform at Exhibition, west of the station building. Though I'd think it's about the new station construction.

Is there any evidence that the new streetcar track installation is under way - other than some demolition - which has been widespread for the new station construction.

Haven't they already awarded the contract to build the new station? They must be very close to finalizing the station footprint, if it's not already finalized already.

Demolition of the buildings at Centennial Park was completed a couple months back and the areas under the elevated section of the Gardiner have been cleared of CNE storage and Toronto Police vehicles. I haven't seen any evidence of construction starting on the new tracks while I went for a walk from Dufferin St. to Exhibition Station a few days ago.

The new construction fence along the south platform at Exhibition GO is related to the temporary pedestrian bridge currently under construction for the Ontario Line expansion.

 

[ARG1]

We've been over this before - he did advocate, and vote in favour of the beginning of the DRL studies. From day one, Transit City was never going south of Danforth. And the idea was, to get Transit City being built quickly, with 7 of the 8 routes being quicly constructable - as we've seen with the Transit City lines on Eglnton East in Scarborough and on Finch West.

I've previously referenecd the relevant documents proving this - so why the fake news?

Proof? From what I know there is very little evidence of this. The main plan for the Don Mills LRT was to have it go underground south of Don Valley and service Pape Station underground. This more or less precluded any form of subway leading there as well without complex digging. Plus, my understanding is that the project was designed for the Don Mills LRT to be extended further south to eventually connect to the East Bayfront LRT/Queen St in the future.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Demolition of the buildings at Centennial Park was completed a couple months back and the areas under the elevated section of the Gardiner have been cleared of CNE storage and Toronto Police vehicles. I haven't seen any evidence of construction starting on the new tracks while I went for a walk from Dufferin St. to Exhibition Station a few days ago.

The new construction fence along the south platform at Exhibition GO is related to the temporary pedestrian bridge currently under construction for the Ontario Line expansion.

If they use the speedy construction of the King-Queen-Roncesvalles-Queensway intersection and Queensway right-of-way as our example, it will take decades.

 

[smallspy]

Demolition of the buildings at Centennial Park was completed a couple months back and the areas under the elevated section of the Gardiner have been cleared of CNE storage and Toronto Police vehicles. I haven't seen any evidence of construction starting on the new tracks while I went for a walk from Dufferin St. to Exhibition Station a few days ago.

The new construction fence along the south platform at Exhibition GO is related to the temporary pedestrian bridge currently under construction for the Ontario Line expansion.

There are two things precluding the construction of any tracks along that section.

As pointed out above, there's the whole issue of the new Exhibition GO Station, with it's integration in with the Ontario Line construction.

The other is the requirement to have the new Dufferin Bridge over the tracks and Gardiner in place. I believe that is still several years out from happening.

Dan

 

[Amare]

We've been over this before - he did advocate, and vote in favour of the beginning of the DRL studies. From day one, Transit City was never going south of Danforth. And the idea was, to get Transit City being built quickly, with 7 of the 8 routes being quicly constructable - as we've seen with the Transit City lines on Eglnton East in Scarborough and on Finch West.

I've previously referenecd the relevant documents proving this - so why the fake news?

Proof? From what I know there is very little evidence of this. The main plan for the Don Mills LRT was to have it go underground south of Don Valley and service Pape Station underground. This more or less precluded any form of subway leading there as well without complex digging. Plus, my understanding is that the project was designed for the Don Mills LRT to be extended further south to eventually connect to the East Bayfront LRT/Queen St in the future.

I dont know what kind of "advocating" David Miller was doing for the DRL, because from what I remember it wasnt very serious @nfitz. He was pushing hard for funds for Transit City during his time as mayor, and the DRL was a project that sat on the backburner.

@ARG1 is right in that he was pushing harder for the Don Mills LRT to be built, a lot harder then any form of a DRL at the time.

 

[ARG1]

I dont know what kind of "advocating" David Miller was doing for the DRL, because from what I remember it wasnt very serious @nfitz. He was pushing hard for funds for Transit City during his time as mayor, and the DRL was a project that sat on the backburner.

@ARG1 is right in that he was pushing harder for the Don Mills LRT to be built, a lot harder then any form of a DRL at the time.

Further than that, iirc at that time the TTC was in the midst of pushing for ATC to be introduced to Line 1, and back then the assumption that was being made was that the capacity boost gained from ATC was going to be enough to handle all of the passengers that needed to use it for a long time, so the need of the DRL was massively undermined and underplayed. It wasn't until the early to mid 2010s did the TTC change its tune to the necessity of the DRL, after Miller already left office.

 

[Undead]

Plus, my understanding is that the project was designed for the Don Mills LRT to be extended further south to eventually connect to the East Bayfront LRT/Queen St in the future.

To my memory, that was never the plan, but happy to be corrected on that. In any case, I'm glad we're getting all three of the original line 1 relief projects (ATC, Bloor Yonge expansion and new line).

 

[ARG1]

To my memory, that was never the plan, but happy to be corrected on that. In any case, I'm glad we're getting all three of the original line 1 relief projects (ATC, Bloor Yonge expansion and new line).

My "source" to this is METRO6's video on the Don Mills LRT (I believe that channel is run by @JSF-1 ?) which supplies this graphic about how the southern extension was planned to look at (important to note that at the time, the routing of the line past the Don Valley was not set in stone):

Unfortunately he doesn't provide any direct sources, and instead only mentions the Don Mills LRT EA in the description, and I can't seem to find it so I only have to assume this is accurate. This is something that was seemingly only studied during the early days of the line, and was dated to when Transit City was still going to use the exact same specs as the existing Streetcar Network. The important thing to highlight however is the mindsight of the planners of the time, all of these southern alternatives were likely devised with no real thought about how this would integrate with a DRL.