[TheTigerMaster]

Metrolinx is providing $7.4 Billion in funding, so no. That's enough to built from Downtown to Eglinton or from Dundas West to Pape via Downtown. If the City of Toronto can produce another $900 Million then the entire DRL from Dundas West to Eglinton via Downtown can be built.

Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Metrolinx is providing $7.4 Billion in funding, so no. That's enough to built from Downtown to Eglinton or from Dundas West to Pape via Downtown. If the City of Toronto can produce another $900 Million than the entire DRL from Dundas West to Eglinton via Downtown can be built.

Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study

Thanks. So I guess 1.8 or 2 billion can get us to Eglinton on both sides.

 

[junctionist]

It would cost more than $900 million for the DRL from Dundas West to Spadina, unless it used the rail corridor. The rail corridor is best suited for electrified GO Transit and the airport train.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It would cost more than $900 million for the DRL from Dundas West to Spadina, unless it used the rail corridor. The rail corridor is best suited for electrified GO Transit and the airport train.

Metrolinx will provide $7.4 Billion for the Relief Line. To build the Relief Line from Dundas West to Eglinton East via Downtown costs $8.3 Billion. Thats a $900 Million shortfall that could be covered by the City of Toronto.

 

[innsertnamehere]

But you think that it will only spend $6.2 billion if the city doesn't? Metrolinx obviously thinks that the DRL will cost more than the TTC thinks, and given how TTC cost quotes often raise significantly, I'm poised to believe it. Its a matter of Metrolinx thinking that the project will cost more than what the TTC thinks, not a matter of metrolinx providing 1.1 billion more for a project than necessary to encourage the city to put in another $900 million.

That or Metrolinx thinks it will be cheaper, and is planning on funding all 3. This is also possible due to the TTCs insanely high quote prices, at roughly $460 million per km. the full 19km line at $7.4 would be around $390 million per km.

 

[MisterF]

but would you trade the 501, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 508, 509, 510, 511 and 512 for just the Queen line? that was the plan at the time. I'm fine with loosing the 504 for the DRL (I actually advocate for it) but all the other lines need to stay, which they weren't planning for in the late 1960's and early 1970's. The justification of the Queen line at the time was largely to allow for the removal of the streetcar lines. Bus feeder routes would run north south to get you to your mid-city destination, but you would have been expected to take a bus to the subway to get somewhere downtown. I'm happy that didn't happen, Streetcars are a huge asset for the city today.

It's a shame that people thought in all or nothing terms. It seems like there were two camps: build more subway lines and get rid of every streetcar, or keep the streetcars and build no more subways. It didn't have to be that way. The original Yonge and Bloor lines replaced only the affected streetcars, a line on Queen could have been no different. This all or nothing thought process has led to the transit network standing still, totally inadequate for the growth around it. And it lives on today in the form of the asinine subways versus light rail debate.

We should never get rid of the whole streetcar system, but there are certain routes where they just can't keep up with demand and would be much better served by subways. We need some pragmatism in our transit planning.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Streetcar routes change in demand significantly as well, in the 1990's Carleton was the busiest route with similar numbers that King is posting today. Queen was the busiest way back in the 1960's, thus the thought of putting it there, and today King is the major route and that is where most people are planning it. (and it is the best route IMO regardless)

once the DRL gets built most of the streetcar system will likely drop in demand as more prefer to drop down to the King line than directly go across town (especially for 501 users) but that doesn't mean that the streetcars won't still be valid.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm betting that all streetcar but King will be kept. If we're feeling particularly ambitions then add a streetcar ROW on Queen as the TTC has requested.

 

[gweed123]

I'm betting that all streetcar but King will be kept. If we're feeling particularly ambitions then add a streetcar ROW on Queen as the TTC has requested.

If the King streetcar is removed, then putting a ROW on Queen may be a good compromise in the 'war on the car'. Of course, that would still be a big net benefit to transit too.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If the King streetcar is removed, then putting a ROW on Queen may be a good compromise in the 'war on the car'. Of course, that would still be a big net benefit to transit too.

Yeah... Doesn't King move something like 17,000 car and 50,000 via streetcar. I'm assuming that the situation is similar on Queen. Seems to make sense to me

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'm betting that all streetcar but King will be kept. If we're feeling particularly ambitions then add a streetcar ROW on Queen as the TTC has requested.

The DRL most likely will not follow Queen Street nor King Street for its ENTIRE length. Nor would they space the stations close together. People would take the DRL if the station is close or take the streetcar if it is closer. It just depends upon the their final destination as well.

I have gotten on streetcars (504 or 505) from the Dundas West subway station myself to get downtown, bypassing the subway east from there.

 

[Hipster Duck]

If the DRL is tunnel-bored - which given the costs of doing anything else is a near certainty - would it really run under King or Queen exclusively? Wouldn't the alignment move a few hundred meters north and south from station to station over its east-west length? For example, I would expect that the DRL would be positioned to cut through the financial district closer to King, move south to intercept Cityplace/Rogers Centre/Freedville development to the west, and then turn northward to intercept Dufferin/Queen even further west than that. Under those circumstances you can't just axe a local transit line (i.e. a streetcar service).

 

[Johnny Au]

If the DRL is tunnel-bored - which given the costs of doing anything else is a near certainty - would it really run under King or Queen exclusively? Wouldn't the alignment move a few hundred kilometers north and south from station to station over its east-west length? For example, I would expect that the DRL would be positioned to cut through the financial district closer to King, move south to intercept Cityplace/Rogers Centre/Freedville development to the west, and then turn northward to intercept Dufferin/Queen even further west than that. Under those circumstances you can't just axe a local transit line (i.e. a streetcar service).

Few hundred kilometres north? The DRL would be tunnelled in North Bay, right at the heart of Mike Harris territory! Few hundred kilometres south? That's the Buffalo MetroRail!

 

[M II A II R II K]

It would act like a Victoria Line which has far apart stop spacing, and the streetcars would be kept, and then there'd be the issue of what to do with the excess streetcars if they removed routes.

 

[junctionist]

Would building a subway downtown be a lot more expensive than in the suburbs? Over the years, I've noticed that that seems to be the general assumption here, but if tunnel boring machines are used, they should clear most of the additional tunnels and utilities downtown without much additional complications.