[sixrings]

^If anything Eglinton only strengthens the case for a DRL as it will dump more riders onto Yonge. The DRL serves different, more local travel needs than GO. It will always be needed regardless of how much GO is upgraded.

Honestly if GO was able to make more stations in Toronto on major streets which are easily accessed by busses or LRT at a 10 minute frequency then I don't know why there would be a need for a DRL. The problem is that Union at the moment couldn't handle that volume of trains coming in and leaving all day. And the second problem is that you would need to add about 5 stations per GO line slowing the train down probably too much for 905 riders. Third problem but it could be fixed by presto is the pricing. If all of this happened it would very much be like Calgarys C Train.

(Eglinton, Lawrence, St Claire, Bloor, Liberty Village, on all western lines)

That being said if and when Chow is elected she will have a extra billion dollars left to play with after cancelling the Danforth extension. Ideally I wanted this to go to the DRL, however if we are resigned to making the GO lines are DRL then we should use the Billion to complete Eglinton LRT to the airport and Finch LRT to Yonge.

THE ARL is what I always wanted to see become the western DRL

As for downtown transit, the cheapest way to make it is to not allow parking on Streetcar streets between Bathurst and Sherbourne. Eliminate Left turns as well on streetcar streets between Spadina and Jarvis.The new Streetcars are longer and if they don't bump into traffic they will be very efficient about moving people. Finally add dedicated bike lanes on the streets without streetcars.

 

[MisterF]

Honestly if GO was able to make more stations in Toronto on major streets which are easily accessed by busses or LRT at a 10 minute frequency then I don't know why there would be a need for a DRL.

Because there are a lot of parts of the city that wouldn't benefit from an RER type system on the go lines. Even with that system, there would still be no reliable east-west transportation through the entirety of downtown from Front to Bloor. Huge numbers of people are going to destinations in this area. A DRL would go a long way to solving that problem and would be far more effective than streetcars with their own ROW. Not to mention all the neighbourhoods outside downtown that are away from the GO lines but along a potential DRL route.

 

[sixrings]

Because there are a lot of parts of the city that wouldn't benefit from an RER type system on the go lines. Even with that system, there would still be no reliable east-west transportation through the entirety of downtown from Front to Bloor. Huge numbers of people are going to destinations in this area. A DRL would go a long way to solving that problem and would be far more effective than streetcars with their own ROW. Not to mention all the neighbourhoods outside downtown that are away from the GO lines but along a potential DRL route.

You are assuming that if they build aDRL or a Downtown line of any sort that there will be stop spacing to what we see south of bloor at the moment. I am skeptical we will ever see stop spacing like that with station construction costs being the most expensive part of a project. Oakwood and chaplain stations are constantly talked about being cut due to their costs and Leslie couldn't get a underground station because of its cost. If they had spacing like south of bloor that would be another thing but those days seem to be numbered.

 

[MisterF]

You are assuming that if they build aDRL or a Downtown line of any sort that there will be stop spacing to what we see south of bloor at the moment. I am skeptical we will ever see stop spacing like that with station construction costs being the most expensive part of a project. Oakwood and chaplain stations are constantly talked about being cut due to their costs and Leslie couldn't get a underground station because of its cost. If they had spacing like south of bloor that would be another thing but those days seem to be numbered.

It's not just south of Bloor. It's almost the entire 2 line and the Eglinton line that's under construction right now. It's not some relic from a former era, it's how you provide adequate service to highly dense parts of a city. That kind of station spacing is standard for the downtown portions of subway systems all over the world, and for good reason. If there's any new line where close station spacing is justified it's the central part of the DRL.

 

[sixrings]

It's not just south of Bloor. It's almost the entire 2 line and the Eglinton line that's under construction right now. It's not some relic from a former era, it's how you provide adequate service to highly dense parts of a city. That kind of station spacing is standard for the downtown portions of subway systems all over the world, and for good reason. If there's any new line where close station spacing is justified it's the central part of the DRL.

I agree. Unfortunately every proposed route so far shows very few stations. They are using the excuse that there needs to be less stations to motivate people to switch to the drl as then it would be faster. However the reality is that less stations means less money an I'm sure that's what's going to drive any transit project. People would want to transfer simply because the yonge line is so over crowded, we don't need to motivate people with the allure of speed.. I'm concerned a drl without enough stations will be a waste of money.

 

[M II A II R II K]

It would at least relieve the street transit, possibly abolishing one or two streetcar routes.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It would at least relieve the street transit, possibly abolishing one or two streetcar routes.

Most of the downtown streetcar routes provide local service. From Transit Toronto there is some information you might find of interest, at this link:

When the Bloor subway opened between Keele and Woodbine stations in 1966, the King streetcar line operated into Broadview station and Dundas West station/ Erindale Loop, which had been on the site of Broadview station's bus and streetcar terminal, had been replaced months before. Vincent loop had been located across the street from Dundas West station's streetcar terminal, and it too stopped seeing King cars months before the subway opened. Initially, the TTC cut service dramatically on King Street, believing that many passengers which had been transferring from the Bloor streetcar to King cars would use the subway to get downtown instead, but the TTC discovered that it had underestimated how many people would continue to use the line. Through 1966, streetcars were added back on the line until service returned to near pre-Bloor subway levels.

 

[gweed123]

Most of the downtown streetcar routes provide local service. From Transit Toronto there is some information you might find of interest, at this link:

That doesn't surprise me. What I suspect will happen when the DRL opens is that passengers originating from outside the new DRL U will take the streetcar to the intersecting DRL stop, and than use that to get downtown. You may even get a little bit of back-tracking as well from passengers who live just on the inside of the new U, for whom it's faster to take the streetcar 'out' for two minutes, and then transfer to the DRL to go 'in', vs taking the streetcar the whole way in.

What will then end up happening is the streetcars will become even more local than they are now, because the long-haul riders will be shifted onto the DRL. The end result of all of this could be that the streetcars will actually see more ridership than they do now, because there will be a greater turnover along the route.

The reality is that unless the DRL runs almost completely parallel to a single streetcar route, that the streetcar routes will remain. For most of the streetcar routes however, the DRL will bisect it, not overlap it.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

gweed:

Which is why I think that the DRL should be first and foremost about hitting as many nodes in the core/shoulder area as possible - REX is superior for long-haul relief while DRL should be about increasing the capacity and improving reliability of transit in the core.

AoD

 

[M II A II R II K]

But if at least one of the streetcar routes aren't as busy anymore it could be replaced by a bus to do the same job.

 

[robmausser]

gweed:

Which is why I think that the DRL should be first and foremost about hitting as many nodes in the core/shoulder area as possible - REX is superior for long-haul relief while DRL should be about increasing the capacity and improving reliability of transit in the core.

AoD

Thats why I like this map of the DRL the best:

Because it is about linking together what will be all of the GO-REX lines and other forms of transit.

Its purpose is to create linkages between the various networks.

 

[sixrings]

Thats why I like this map of the DRL the best:

View attachment 29468

Because it is about linking together what will be all of the GO-REX lines and other forms of transit.

Its purpose is to create linkages between the various networks.

i like this map especially if we can retool the arl into a western drl from bloor to pearson.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Yes the above map is my favorite plan+routing. It accomplishes everything we need the DRL to do. (Relieves pressure on B-Y and Y-E, provides quicker path downtown for suburban commuters, links together all GO-REX lines, relieves streetcars, stops at crucial locations such as Liberty Village, Spadina and East York, increases connectivity of Toronto's transit system and doesn't flood Union station with people.)

 

[salsa]

View attachment 29468

Someone misplaced Cosburn station at O'Conner Drive instead of Cosburn Ave.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

^^^ speaking of that, i've been meaning to ask, if you guys had a choice of O'Connor, Mortimer or Cosburn, where would the stop be at? Or should there be two on that section?