[CDL.TO]

Great post. Good info for people who hadn't read these reports themselves.

Interesting to note: the plan for an underground station at Union includes the new second platform.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Indeed - incidentally I am looking at the same report right now! The land use has changed dramatically to render some of the proposed downtown options moot - though it must be added that they did foresee potential additional stations at Sherbone and Gerrard:

And here is details on the expanded Union station:

AoD

 

[44 North]

Great post. Good info for people who hadn't read these reports themselves.

Interesting to note: the plan for an underground station at Union includes the new second platform.

Thanks. I mostly went there to answer my own questions, but I was glad to share it.

Indeed - incidentally I am looking at the same report right now! The land use has changed dramatically to render some of the proposed downtown options moot - though it must be added that they did foresee potential additional stations at Sherbone and Gerrard:

Haha, no way! Clearly the library is the hip place to be. I actually don't recall seeing those maps you showed. Then again I only really focused on my pics when I got home, and some of them were a bit fuzzy and dark. The ones I posted were minimized quite a bit, so I'm glad yours are filling in the blanks. Edit: I guess they're the same map, just much higher def and clearer.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So earlier in the week I made a quick trip to the Reference Library. Man, they got everything there. So many mothballed plans, and completed EAs for projects that I thought were only speculated. While there I skimmed the Network 2011 Final Report. It’s weird how so much work could go into identifying priorities and phasing - with Sheppard first, DRL second, and Eglinton West RT (either bus or rail) last. But a few years later this being easily flipped to EWRT being first (and upgraded to heavy rail subway), Sheppard second, and DRL dropped completely. If anyone wants more info that I gleaned from the Network 2011 report, I may post it elsewhere at some other time.

Actually as a point - only part of Sheppard (to Vic Park) is supposed to be first - the rest falls after DRL.

AoD

 

[robmausser]

Renderings
*note how high a Donlands route would’ve been if elevated above an existing elevated rail corridor, or what Front St would’ve been like with a subway above it
View attachment 52729

Sometimes I look at EA's and think "why...why would you think this is a good idea??"

Why on earth would you destroy the beautiful front street Union Station walkway with an elevated line when you have a massive train yard right behind it?? Either elevated or at grade beside it in some fashion. It even makes more sense in terms of offering connections to various GO trains etc.

Some creatives have a "vision" and then can't think outside of this box they have created in their minds.

Same goes for having all the Transit City LRT's down the centre of the street like streetcar ROW's. So many advantages to having it beside the road instead like on Queens Quay.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Because few people cared about heritage protection back then. Just be happy that they didn't suggest demolishing Union completely.

 

[Tuscani01]

Same goes for having all the Transit City LRT's down the centre of the street like streetcar ROW's. So many advantages to having it beside the road instead like on Queens Quay.

Seeing all of the confusion that is happening around Queens Quay right now, I'm starting to think maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to have the Transit City LRT lines in the centre of the street.

 

[44 North]

Sometimes I look at EA's and think "why...why would you think this is a good idea??"

I wouldn't have minded. Better than waiting 50yrs for proper cross-downtown service, riding packed and slow streetcars. And the glass atrium design of the station does look okay imo. But keep in mind the idea may have been to be a bit of a showcase for the province's new sleek narrow-bodied midsize subway.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Sometimes I look at EA's and think "why...why would you think this is a good idea??"

Why on earth would you destroy the beautiful front street Union Station walkway with an elevated line when you have a massive train yard right behind it?? Either elevated or at grade beside it in some fashion. It even makes more sense in terms of offering connections to various GO trains etc.

It's pretty clear from the reports that the main focus isn't facilitating access to the GO as much as a quick and easy connection to YUS at the existing Union subway station, and for that to happen you need to be physically proximate to it - and they have pretty much dismissed the elevated station at the end of the evals.

I wouldn't have minded. Better than waiting 50yrs for proper cross-downtown service, riding packed and slow streetcars. And the glass atrium design of the station does look okay imo. But keep in mind the idea may have been to be a bit of a showcase for the province's new sleek narrow-bodied midsize subway.

Except that the elevated station isn't the make or break for this project - it was the unwillingness to entertain additional high capacity transit into the core as part of the anti-development thesis, in the context of dithering provincial governments that killed it.

AoD

 

[44 North]

Except that the elevated station isn't the make or break for this project - it was the unwillingness to entertain additional high capacity transit into the core as part of the anti-development thesis, in the context of dithering provincial governments that killed it.

I'm aware. I meant hypothetically if they did plonk a guideway overtop Front, it probably wouldn't be as bad as many imagine.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm aware. I meant hypothetically if they did plonk a guideway overtop Front, it probably wouldn't be as bad as many imagine.

Actually it probably would be - can you imagine the reduction in urban potential for the stretch in front of Union? And we aren't talking about some remotely graceful steel lattice - it's going to be some hulking concrete guideway along the lines of period SRT (in fact, the station in front of the MTCC you've posted is practically a design clone). It'd be a wreck.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

I'm aware. I meant hypothetically if they did plonk a guideway overtop Front, it probably wouldn't be as bad as many imagine.

Look is one thing, but the upwards-directed sound would certainly not be helpful to guests at the Royal York.

It would be interesting to see a shadow study. Even at that, losing the sightlines to all the archetecturally interesting buildings along Front Street - it would have to stay elevated waaay out past Parliament - is just not acceptable.

- Paul

 

[44 North]

It would be interesting to see a shadow study. Even at that, losing the sightlines to all the archetecturally interesting buildings along Front Street - it would have to stay elevated waaay out past Parliament - is just not acceptable.

Past Parliament? Not with the preferred alignment, which is what's shown in the rendering. And unless they let the system fall into a state of disrepair, I don't think it'd be overly noisy.

 

[crs1026]

Past Parliament? Not with the preferred alignment, which is what's shown in the rendering.

I was a bit skeptical whether that alignment was still viable - there are some new high rise buildings down there, but maybe a line could be fed over and around the O'Keefe Center.

All the same, I would hate to give up an unfettered view of Union Station's north side.

- Paul

 

[44 North]

I was a bit skeptical whether that alignment was still viable - there are some new high rise buildings down there, but maybe a line could be fed over and around the O'Keefe Center.

All the same, I would hate to give up an unfettered view of Union Station's north side.

- Paul

For sure it'd be unviable now. Even back then I doubt it'd fly. I'm mostly talking hypothetically and theoretically if it was built then, and if ICTS proved to be more reliable. Toronto has a way of bucking the trends seen elsewhere. Look at the development around the Gardiner. If non-Torontonians saw a picture of that they'd probably think it's somewhere in Asia. So even if Front was shadowy and rumbly, I could still see it being lively and developed.

And yes the loss of views and sitelines would def suck. But I think the transit riders' views would be pretty stellar.