dowlingm
Senior Member
Money still has to be found to repay the pension funds investment. It's just another way to borrow money.
- Thread starter JasonParis
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
True, but it can take somewhat bigger risks, with less mark-up, if the government wants to interfere.
MisterF
Senior Member
True, and even if we could achieve 90 seconds it still wouldn't have any of the other benefits of the relief line - expanded rapid transit coverage to some of the most densely populated parts of the city, streetcar relief, spreading out the crowds, and a faster ride. Plus it would still leave the network with one massive point of failure - one problem and the whole network grinds to a halt. We need redundancy in the system, as the relief line alliance pointed out on their Facebook feed today.
RyanM12
New Member
The DRL should be financed with tolls on the DVP/Gardiner, highways that the DRL will roughly parallel.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
True, and even if we could achieve 90 seconds it still wouldn't have any of the other benefits of the relief line - expanded rapid transit coverage to some of the most densely populated parts of the city, streetcar relief, spreading out the crowds, and a faster ride. Plus it would still leave the network with one massive point of failure - one problem and the whole network grinds to a halt. We need redundancy in the system, as the relief line alliance pointed out on their Facebook feed today.
Plugging this for the people who've yet to compete the ridiculously easy form to mail letters of support to their political representatives http://www.relieflinealliance.ca/write-to-your-politicians/
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Another reason to give the Relief Line a high priority. From link.
Toronto core must adapt with 'mini baby boom': Keesmaat
Downtown Toronto is growing four times as fast as the rest of the city, and its population is expected to top 475,000 by 2041.
We'll need a Relief Line for the commuters and keep the streetcars (with additional streetcars and lines) for the local users.
Toronto core must adapt with 'mini baby boom': Keesmaat
Downtown Toronto is growing four times as fast as the rest of the city, and its population is expected to top 475,000 by 2041.
If you think the King streetcar is crowded now, just wait until 2041.
According to the city’s planning department, the population of downtown Toronto will nearly double by then, reaching an estimated 475,000 people.
“To put that into perspective, that’s half the population of Saskatchewan living in 17 square kilometres,” said chief planner Jennifer Keesmaat.
The impending influx of people has serious implications for the city and the infrastructure that residents rely on, Keesmaat said, including transit, schools, parks and even sewer pipes.
“If we don’t build the infrastructure we need, you can imagine a scenario where the toilets in your condo don’t flush,” she said.
In order to avoid clogged toilets – as well as clogged classrooms and subways – the city is launching a series of consultations under the umbrella of “TOCore.” The goal is to build a new master plan for downtown that will ensure density and livability can co-exist.
“Going forward, growth will be the status quo and we need to be able to deliver on the promise of a vibrant downtown where communities can thrive,” Keesmaat said.
Part of that involves looking at how the core can become more friendly to families. Downtown is undergoing a “mini baby boom,” Keesmaat said, but infrastructure like schools and childcare facilities lags behind.
Precisely what a more livable downtown looks will depend on the needs of residents, Keesmaat said, but she suspects it will involve things like increased infrastructure for walking and cycling and making better use of local laneways.
Residents can also look forward to a pilot project on King Street, where transit and pedestrian traffic will be prioritized over cars. Such changes are necessary to handle the “latent demand” for transit along one of the city’s busiest corridors, Keesmaat said.
“The King streetcar already handles 60,000 riders a day. What happens when the population doubles?” the chief planner said.
Toronto planning staff are actively seeking input from the public for #TOCore. A free public meeting is scheduled for Wednesday at Innis Town Hall (2 Sussex Ave.) from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. You can also tweet your thoughts using the #DTAdvice hashtag.
What does livability mean?
Keesmaat said livability can be understood as the opportunity to live your life near where you live. That requires “complete neighbourhoods” with a mix of employment, recreation and amenities like grocery stores and cultural centres.
“A livable environment is one where people have the amenities they need for everyday activities. And ideally, they have those amenities within a reasonable walk or short transit ride from home,” she said.
According to the city’s planning department, the population of downtown Toronto will nearly double by then, reaching an estimated 475,000 people.
“To put that into perspective, that’s half the population of Saskatchewan living in 17 square kilometres,” said chief planner Jennifer Keesmaat.
The impending influx of people has serious implications for the city and the infrastructure that residents rely on, Keesmaat said, including transit, schools, parks and even sewer pipes.
“If we don’t build the infrastructure we need, you can imagine a scenario where the toilets in your condo don’t flush,” she said.
In order to avoid clogged toilets – as well as clogged classrooms and subways – the city is launching a series of consultations under the umbrella of “TOCore.” The goal is to build a new master plan for downtown that will ensure density and livability can co-exist.
“Going forward, growth will be the status quo and we need to be able to deliver on the promise of a vibrant downtown where communities can thrive,” Keesmaat said.
Part of that involves looking at how the core can become more friendly to families. Downtown is undergoing a “mini baby boom,” Keesmaat said, but infrastructure like schools and childcare facilities lags behind.
Precisely what a more livable downtown looks will depend on the needs of residents, Keesmaat said, but she suspects it will involve things like increased infrastructure for walking and cycling and making better use of local laneways.
Residents can also look forward to a pilot project on King Street, where transit and pedestrian traffic will be prioritized over cars. Such changes are necessary to handle the “latent demand” for transit along one of the city’s busiest corridors, Keesmaat said.
“The King streetcar already handles 60,000 riders a day. What happens when the population doubles?” the chief planner said.
Toronto planning staff are actively seeking input from the public for #TOCore. A free public meeting is scheduled for Wednesday at Innis Town Hall (2 Sussex Ave.) from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. You can also tweet your thoughts using the #DTAdvice hashtag.
What does livability mean?
Keesmaat said livability can be understood as the opportunity to live your life near where you live. That requires “complete neighbourhoods” with a mix of employment, recreation and amenities like grocery stores and cultural centres.
“A livable environment is one where people have the amenities they need for everyday activities. And ideally, they have those amenities within a reasonable walk or short transit ride from home,” she said.
MisterF
Senior Member
^Dismissing local riders in the design of the subway would be a huge mistake. Subways were invented to handle local and medium distance travel that surface transit no longer accommodates.
P23
Active Member
True, and even if we could achieve 90 seconds it still wouldn't have any of the other benefits of the relief line - expanded rapid transit coverage to some of the most densely populated parts of the city, streetcar relief, spreading out the crowds, and a faster ride. Plus it would still leave the network with one massive point of failure - one problem and the whole network grinds to a halt. We need redundancy in the system, as the relief line alliance pointed out on their Facebook feed today.
The concept of switching to a parallel subway line to avoid delays is so alien to people in Toronto that they need to be reminded. Pretty sad state of affairs.
Towered
Superstar
Absolutely - the DRL should have similar stop spacing as Line 2.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
That would mean adding back stops at Parliament and Carlaw, and building two interchange stations at Osgoode and Queen-Yonge rather than a single stop at City Hall.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Amen!!!
W. K. Lis
Superstar
I hope that Gerrard and Queen will have on-street transfer platforms like what the Bloor streetcars used.
Not off-street loops.
Not off-street loops.
I think the only likely way that happens is if land on one corner is expropriated for a station entrance (like Eglinton), which allows for the road on one side of the street to be widened to accommodate the platforms. That would in essence separate the walk-in traffic from the streetcar traffic.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
Why wouldn't we just get it to duck into an underground portal, like St Clair West but minus the loop?
You'd still need enough room in the street ROW in order to build a portal, unless you just want to cut traffic down to 1 lane in each direction. I favour underground portals at places like Spadina & Queen, where the ROW is already wide enough to support that. But locations where the streetcars run in mixed traffic may be more difficult to accomplish that.