Surely you want to be further west than Dufferin if you're going to do a Lake to 401 subway of that scale?

I mean you're barely a few streets over from the University line.

Run it up Keele/Weston Road or run it up Royal York if you want to be properly inclusive.

Dufferin?

Dufferin is the best street for Ontario Line West. Its the busiest bus route downtown, and its far away enough from the University Line to still generate a lot of ridership.

Moving it further West is pointless since the GO Expansion on the Georgetown Sub will mean rapid transit is already offered for that area.
 
At tonight's West Don Lands Committee (WDLC) meeting, the Ontario Line is on the agenda:

Toronto & Region Conservation Authority (TRCA) public Board documents
* Ontario Line Property Disposition Request - Corktown Common
* Attachments 1 and 2 - maps

Metrolinx Responses to West Don Lands Committee: Ontario Line Environmental Impact Assessment Report (previously circulated)

Several attachments are included. In case it's of interest here they are:
  • Metrolinx - Property Disposition Request.pdf (G Drive link)
  • MX response to WDLC OL EIC comments.xlsx (G Drive link)
  • Draft Minutes Mar 28 2022.docx (G Drive link)
  • Attachments 1 and 2 maps:

    1650897958879.png

    1650897999720.png
 
At tonight's West Don Lands Committee (WDLC) meeting, the Ontario Line is on the agenda:



Several attachments are included. In case it's of interest here they are:
those 2 properties beside the don yard are probably the ones mentioned in the video for early works a page or 2 back. curious about the one beside adelaide though
 
  • modest, but still very good ridership, due to its streetcar connection. But I'm sure this area would see huge intensification with the subway.
  • College Station would serve both Dufferin Mall and the College Streetcar, so this would be tremendously busy. Dufferin Mall is already one of the busiest malls in the city
Dufferin could also have a combined GO stop by the Galleria development as well, assuming the midtown corridor gets built in our lifetime.
 
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The area is already served by a GO line, so the OL also going through the area seems like overkill to me.

the area literally isn't served by anything

everything in between exhibition station GO and long branch (queensway, lake shore) is a void of transit in the sense that you pretty much always have to go the wrong way to go the right way at a reasonable speed. i've also waited for that queensway bus for over 40 minutes like 4 out of 5 times i've needed it.

For Lake Shore the streetcar service is terribly slow in general... they also love to short turn at the loop wasting more of peoples time. Long Branch is not a good option. Basically the Park Lawn GO would help some issues and the 509 running west of Roncesvalles will solve some issues, as well. But it doesn't solve everything.

GO transit isn't really meant for people taking short trips or easing the burden of long waits. Mimico GO is also like 6+ blocks off of Queensway. It's also not really on Royal York, it has a little set of stairs going up basically under a bridge... it's on a side street. The 76 (Royal York) if you choose to take it stops 2 blocks away... wow great transit connection planning TTC. Queensway bus doesn't go past Mimico GO, it goes to Keele station. The transit is incredibly stupid in South Etobicoke. It's beyond bad in every respect.

For me, I'd want Ontario Line running along the Gardiner for the entire purpose of not having to travel up to Bloor to get a Subway after waiting for the 110 for upwards of half an hour. Or having to wait 20 minutes for a streetcar that short turns and turns into molasses the second it hits Queen. Or having to take multiple buses or a streetcar in the wrong direction to get to a GO line.

Just now just checked travel times of every option in the area to get to Queen and Bathurst.... 55 minutes is the fastest transit route excluding travel time to the stop. Would take 35 minutes by biking (!) and 15 minutes by driving. I can tell you I certainly feel the service. Taking the Subway for me would take about the same time for me to walk it. I know because I have done it. Remember this is in an area 2 stops away from Union on the GO line and it's hell.

I walked from Finch Station on the YUS to my area and I beat the expected Subway/bus times. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

So yes, a GO line runs through our neighbourhood, it just doesn't stop here and isn't easy to get to... or time saving in any way.
 
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Surely you want to be further west than Dufferin if you're going to do a Lake to 401 subway of that scale?

I mean you're barely a few streets over from the University line.

Run it up Keele/Weston Road or run it up Royal York if you want to be properly inclusive.

Dufferin?
The area is already served by a GO line, so the OL also going through the area seems like overkill to me.

I'd much rather see southern Etobicoke served by an LRT line between Exhibition OL Station and Long Branch (roughly speaking) via the TTC Queensway ROW. It'll be very cost effective, and would provide area residents with a quick one-transfer ride to the downtown core.

If we design this thing right, the LRT would only have two traffic lights between Exhibition Station and the dense residential developments at Park Lawn (circled on @EnviroTO's map).

West of Park Lawn, the LRT would interact with more traffic lights, however I'm not as concerned about that given the relatively modest ridership we'd see in that area (I suppose we could elevate it if necessary, but that seems like overkill).

LRT capacity could be an issue though. Such a convenient connection from Park Lawn to the Downtown core would induce a lot of Downtown-bound demand from this already very dense area. We'd likely have to figure out how to run the LRV's in two car sets, without impeding the operations of the TTC legacy streetcar network.

As for the Ontario Line, it absolutely needs to travel up Dufferin. It's one of our busiest, most unreliable and slowest bus routes in the city. The Ontario Line is pretty much the one and only opportunity we have to fix Dufferin Street transit.

I'm bored, so I made a map (it's 2 AM... I really should go to sleep)

View attachment 395503'
The LRT line from my last post shown in red, GO in green, and the OL in blue.

Looking at this map, I'm just realizing how insanely well used the Dufferin Subway would be.

Starting from the south, we'd likely see 10 stations:
  • King West and Queen West stations would be very well used, because... well, its King and Queen west. Also, Liberty Village.
  • Dundas station would see modest, but still very good ridership, due to its streetcar connection. But I'm sure this area would see huge intensification with the subway.
  • College Station would serve both Dufferin Mall and the College Streetcar, so this would be tremendously busy. Dufferin Mall is already one of the busiest malls in the city. Dufferin Mall also has plenty of intensification planed around it, which would further drive ridership.
  • Bloor-Dufferin Station would be amongst the most used stations on the subway network. Almost anyone travelling on Line 2 from west of Dufferin to the Downtown core would transfer to the Ontario Line. Heavy residential intensification is already planned for the area, and I wouldn't be surprised to see commercial and office intensification as well with the Ontario Line (the proximity to Downtown and Line 2 would make this an extremely attractive location of commercial and office use). This would also relieve Line 2 crowding, which would make Line 2 western extension more viable.
  • The area around Dupont and Dufferin is also seeing heavy intensification with the new Gallery redevelopment. And this is an area that could easily absorb more intensification. This would be a very busy station
  • Davenport would see merely modest ridership, with one relatively low ridership bus route, and not a whole lot of intensification.
  • St Clair would connect to the streetcar, and the surrounding area is already pretty dense. Riders of the 512 would favour the Ontario Line over Line 1 to access the Downtown core.
  • Rogers would see only modest ridership.
  • Eglinton station would connect to Line 5, and generate a pretty large number of transfers from Crosstown West. It would also connect to the busy 29 Dufferin bus, which would continue to run between Eglinton and Wilson.
It’s also worth noting that the Dufferin Subway would massively reduce crowding on our streetcar network.

I would suggest continuing the line north on Dufferin towards Sheppard (perhaps elevated), but the proximity to the Spadina Line would eliminate that opportunity. We continue to pay the price for putting the Spadina Line on Allen Road.

Anyways, to compensate for our Spadina Line mistake, I'd perhaps look into installing some kind of BRT for the 29 Dufferin. Given the proximity to rapid transit and the 401, the areas of Dufferin north of Eglinton are suitable for huge North York Centre-style intensification, but it's growth potential is kneecapped by traffic congestion, and poor accessibility to the Spadina Line. So in my mind a Dufferin North BRT absolutely should happen if the Ontario Line reaches Dufferin/Eglinton.

Nevertheless, even with the Ontario Line terminating at Dufferin/Eglinton, the Eglinton to Exhibition segment would be extremely well used. We'd likely see in excess of 15,000 riders at the busiest point of this extension (southbound into Exhibition) in the AM rush hour in 2041, and I feel like that’s a rather modest prediction given Dufferin’s intensification potential.

The Dufferin corridor in general just has so much potential for urban intensification with the introduction of this subway line. Dare I say it, the Ontario Line on Dufferin Street could far exceed the growth that the Yonge Line created for North York Centre. It's a longer corridor that's already seeing huge growth, even without the subway. And Dufferin would be even more attractive than North York Centre for commercial and office development. In time, Dufferin could become the single densest corridor in the city outside the Downtown core (perhaps in terms of population and jobs).

If it wasn't for the Yonge Line being completely over capacity, Dufferin Street would be #1 priority for a subway extension. In my mind, no other potential subway corridor is primed to be as heavily used, or as transformational in terms of land use. Not even the Ontario Line north extension to Sheppard.

So, yeah, I'm probably Toronto's #1 fan of a Dufferin Street subway right now 😅

Edit: Added the Dufferin North BRT because I couldn't help myself and because it makes too much sense.

View attachment 395507
I agree with @afransen that this should be in the west thread, but just quickly. I see the argument for all the corridors, far west, Dundas/Roncescalles/Weston, and Dufferin. Why not go along the rail corridor for the OL and Build a new subway line on Dufferin? It could go from Eglinton to Lakeshore, connecting as a transfer point to the OL. Why not extend the WWLRT via the Queensway to Port Credit? Lots of ways to solve multiple issues here.
 
the area literally isn't served by anything

everything in between exhibition station GO and long branch (queensway, lake shore) is a void of transit in the sense that you pretty much always have to go the wrong way to go the right way at a reasonable speed. i've also waited for that queensway bus for over 40 minutes like 4 out of 5 times i've needed it.

For Lake Shore the streetcar service is terribly slow in general... they also love to short turn at the loop wasting more of peoples time. Long Branch is not a good option. Basically the Park Lawn GO would help some issues and the 509 running west of Roncesvalles will solve some issues, as well. But it doesn't solve everything.

GO transit isn't really meant for people taking short trips or easing the burden of long waits. Mimico GO is also like 6+ blocks off of Queensway. It's also not really on Royal York, it has a little set of stairs going up basically under a bridge... it's on a side street. The 76 (Royal York) if you choose to take it stops 2 blocks away... wow great transit connection planning TTC. Queensway bus doesn't go past Mimico GO, it goes to Keele station. The transit is incredibly stupid in South Etobicoke. It's beyond bad in every respect.

For me, I'd want Ontario Line running along the Gardiner for the entire purpose of not having to travel up to Bloor to get a Subway after waiting for the 110 for upwards of half an hour. Or having to wait 20 minutes for a streetcar that short turns and turns into molasses the second it hits Queen. Or having to take multiple buses or a streetcar in the wrong direction to get to a GO line.

Just now just checked travel times of every option in the area to get to Queen and Bathurst.... 55 minutes is the fastest transit route excluding travel time to the stop. Would take 35 minutes by biking (!) and 15 minutes by driving. I can tell you I certainly feel the service. Taking the Subway for me would take about the same time for me to walk it. I know because I have done it. Remember this is in an area 2 stops away from Union on the GO line and it's hell.

I walked from Finch Station on the YUS to my area and I beat the expected Subway/bus times. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

So yes, a GO line runs through our neighbourhood, it just doesn't stop here and isn't easy to get to... or time saving in any way.
Rapid transit is coming coming to the Etobicoke Waterfront. It's pretty much a when, not if.
 
Rapid transit is coming coming to the Etobicoke Waterfront. It's pretty much a when, not if.
it's not really an LRT in the full sense.

i made a mention of it in my post, it's the 509 harbourfront extension

it will have mostly a ROW to humber bay shores and then go in mixed traffic to long branch. i don't believe they're going to use any different trains with it, either.

that's why i said it will help but it doesn't solve every issue. they aren't going to have LRT stop spacing, either, as far as i know.
 
Rapid transit is coming coming to the Etobicoke Waterfront. It's pretty much a when, not if.

That line is dead in the water and even if it was built, would still take basically an hour to get from Long Branch to Union. If that's "Rapid Transit", with an average travel speed of like 16km/h, then sure.

I sure as hell know that if I lived in Long Branch I would be hoping my transit commute would be a bit faster than someone living in Hamilton.
 
That line is dead in the water and even if it was built, would still take basically an hour to get from Long Branch to Union. If that's "Rapid Transit", with an average travel speed of like 16km/h, then sure.

I sure as hell know that if I lived in Long Branch I would be hoping my transit commute would be a bit faster than someone living in Hamilton.
GO exists to get a person to Union for anyone before the future Park Lawn station. WWLRT would help riders to get to places in between
 
GO exists to get a person to Union for anyone before the future Park Lawn station. WWLRT would help riders to get to places in between
not sure how many people in south Etobicoke are going from Long Brach to High Park for their commute, that's the problem.

The WW LRT is very slow and it's primary destination for most riders is a long distance ride to Union, as there are not many major employers along it. Lots of recreational destinations, but that's not what most people make trips for in their day to day lives. It would be great for someone living in Long Branch who wanted to go to High Park, but that's about it.
 
not sure how many people in south Etobicoke are going from Long Brach to High Park for their commute, that's the problem.

The WW LRT is very slow and it's primary destination for most riders is a long distance ride to Union, as there are not many major employers along it. Lots of recreational destinations, but that's not what most people make trips for in their day to day lives. It would be great for someone living in Long Branch who wanted to go to High Park, but that's about it.
What is needed is a Toronto Transportation Department reform. Currently, they are very, very pro-automobile in their practices. The best worst example is their continued implementation of transit non-priority traffic signals. First priority for them is the automobile, even if there is only one occupant in the motor vehicle (the driver). As well, we have city councillors who continue to back them up, or worse, veto any improvements for public transit.

The Toronto Transit Commission may want and know how to speed public transit, but there are politicians and bureaucrats who do not want to do that.
 
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What is needed is a Toronto Transportation Department reform. Currently, they are very, very pro-automobile in their practices.

Don't agree at all.

Downtown we've had roads everywhere reduced to just one car lane each way to allow for bicycle or multi-use lanes. Examples like Bayview Extension, Dundas, Canary District, Eastern to name a tiny fraction. Speed bumps everywhere. CafeTO. Cyclists exempt from traffic laws through zero enforcement. Extra low speed limits like 30km/h where it used to be 60km/h.

I definitely would not call any of these PRO automobile at all.

Everything is moving away from making things easier and more convenient for the automobile.

Of course, those with a fanatical hate for cars will continue to spin the narrative that Toronto is all about the automobile, but it clearly is not anymore and is definitely de-prioritizing cars more and and more each day and with each new law and infrastructure upgrade.
 

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