[MisterF]

Well, by the time we have a network expansive enough to have the density you speak of, all the lines will be standing room only for most of the day.

As far as complicated, I cannot understand the TTC riders. Interlining is too hard for them. Now, Express and local service is too complicated too? It is a wonder they can figure out how to get around.....

I didn't say anything about density. And my point about complexity was about construction, not riders.

Building a new subway under an existing line would be needlessly complex, expensive, and ineffective. Again, Yonge line ridership is dispersed over a large area, which is why new lines in other corridors would be better as relief.

 

[micheal_can]

Again, you seem to think that all Yonge passengers live exactly on Yonge? RH RER would siphon off passengers from the future terminus of the line and from Sheppard. How is ripping up all of Line 1 a good idea in any way?

From what I can see, there is no connections to Line 2 on the RH line, which means that the busiest station will not get any relief.
I know that most riders are dumped into the line, not getting on at the station because they live there.

Why would the line be ripped up?

I didn't say anything about density. And my point about complexity was about construction, not riders.

Building a new subway under an existing line would be needlessly complex, expensive, and ineffective. Again, Yonge line ridership is dispersed over a large area, which is why new lines in other corridors would be better as relief.

Drilling bore tunnels are not that complex, so long as you know what to avoid. It would be even easier if you limit the stations it services. For this, assume service is extended to RH. The express could simply stop at stations that are interchanges, like Sheppard, Eglinton, and Bloor. A few others, where LRT/Streetcars are could be added, such as Finch, St Clair, College, Dundas Queen and King. So, a line that would have 17+5, could have about half that. Not only would it be faster, but it may help those going the distance.

The lowest cost option is not how it should be done, as cut and cover would be horrible and most likely not fit with existing tunnels. Twin bored tunnels running below or beside the existing station would be likely the better option. If they could be beside the existing ones for the stations that have the same stations on both, it could be built such that they both share a platform.
<--- Express/Collector --->
Then you decide which to take.

I know an express line will not get built, even if it makes the most sense to releve a line in dire need of relief.

 

[Deadpool X]

We did that - the 407, and the traffic is still a mess.

I think the OL is a great line to ad to the network, but I don't think it will be much of a relief of the Yonge section of Line 1.

You missed the part where I said 407 is not effective because of tolls and that's why 401 is as congested as ever.

 

[NoahB]

From what I can see, there is no connections to Line 2 on the RH line, which means that the busiest station will not get any relief.
I know that most riders are dumped into the line, not getting on at the station because they live there.

Why would the line be ripped up?



Drilling bore tunnels are not that complex, so long as you know what to avoid. It would be even easier if you limit the stations it services. For this, assume service is extended to RH. The express could simply stop at stations that are interchanges, like Sheppard, Eglinton, and Bloor. A few others, where LRT/Streetcars are could be added, such as Finch, St Clair, College, Dundas Queen and King. So, a line that would have 17+5, could have about half that. Not only would it be faster, but it may help those going the distance.

The lowest cost option is not how it should be done, as cut and cover would be horrible and most likely not fit with existing tunnels. Twin bored tunnels running below or beside the existing station would be likely the better option. If they could be beside the existing ones for the stations that have the same stations on both, it could be built such that they both share a platform.
<--- Express/Collector --->
Then you decide which to take.

I know an express line will not get built, even if it makes the most sense to releve a line in dire need of relief.

Every station with your idea of a shared platform would need to be closed while under construction...You are just trying to copy the new york system which was built in green fields. lol


You really believe they can bore NEXT TO the current Yonge line which is considered a shallow tunnel? Next to the tunnels are a lot of garages as well as the PATH system. So cut and the cover is comepletly out of the question unless they will dig through people's garages. (even then, the equipment probably won't fit in a 2.2m clearance a garage would have...)

All the stations will have to fit within the tunnels and that still won't be enough to prevent disruptions as bad as the Yonge Eglington ELRT stop. (did you see how huge the staging area there??)

If, and that's a giant IF , they ever build an express, it would be at least 40m underneath the ground with 4min escalator ride at each station. The stations will have to be dug from within the tunnels because there will be no portals to the surface except in a small number of locations. Each of the stations will have to secure the structure of each station they run close to like what they did with Yonge-Eglinton and Eglinton West. And who knows what surprises they will find under the 70yr old stations.

When people say it is not practical, they are saying this will take double the time and money to construct than a new line somewhere else that will intercept the huge number of bus riders going to Yonge because they have no other option.

 

[Deadpool X]

That's a well written response.

Even if having express line costs the same as a new line and causes no inconvenience, it makes more sense to build the line elsewhere. The assumption that everyone lives within a short walk of Yonge is just plain wrong. People arrive at Yonge line from over 10 km to ride the subway downtown. Why keep having miserable bus rides when you could achieve the same result by building a new line?

It's not like we have a dozen lines convering every part of city and now we need to increase capacity. Let GO take care of the express business.

 

[Allandale25]

I'm sure someone with better Photoshop/design skills could do a more accurate comparison than this, but just had to try.

Photo left from here, centre image from here, image on right from Google Maps here. Note: I didn't bother adding in the Gerrard platforms. This map below says the 4th track for GO (and VIA) will be on the south side (to the left in the picture on the left) and I didn't include it in the above annotated image on the left. Note: the map below hasn't been updated to show the new OL alignment.

 

[micheal_can]

You missed the part where I said 407 is not effective because of tolls and that's why 401 is as congested as ever.

I didn't miss that. That is why I suggested the change in tolls.

Every station with your idea of a shared platform would need to be closed while under construction...You are just trying to copy the new york system which was built in green fields. lol


You really believe they can bore NEXT TO the current Yonge line which is considered a shallow tunnel? Next to the tunnels are a lot of garages as well as the PATH system. So cut and the cover is comepletly out of the question unless they will dig through people's garages. (even then, the equipment probably won't fit in a 2.2m clearance a garage would have...)

All the stations will have to fit within the tunnels and that still won't be enough to prevent disruptions as bad as the Yonge Eglington ELRT stop. (did you see how huge the staging area there??)

If, and that's a giant IF , they ever build an express, it would be at least 40m underneath the ground with 4min escalator ride at each station. The stations will have to be dug from within the tunnels because there will be no portals to the surface except in a small number of locations. Each of the stations will have to secure the structure of each station they run close to like what they did with Yonge-Eglinton and Eglinton West. And who knows what surprises they will find under the 70yr old stations.

When people say it is not practical, they are saying this will take double the time and money to construct than a new line somewhere else that will intercept the huge number of bus riders going to Yonge because they have no other option.

I know it is highly expensive and challenging. However, the OL should not be also called a relief line. I'll bet within 5 years of it opening, Bloor-Yonge Station will still be just as busy.

That's a well written response.

Even if having express line costs the same as a new line and causes no inconvenience, it makes more sense to build the line elsewhere. The assumption that everyone lives within a short walk of Yonge is just plain wrong. People arrive at Yonge line from over 10 km to ride the subway downtown. Why keep having miserable bus rides when you could achieve the same result by building a new line?

It's not like we have a dozen lines convering every part of city and now we need to increase capacity. Let GO take care of the express business.

This goes back to what is the purpose of the OL.

 

[Deadpool X]

This goes back to what is the purpose of the OL.

Main purpose is relieving Yonge line but that's not the only purpose. Otherwise they could have chosen a route on Bayview. When you are spending $15 billion on a single project, you will also think "what else can I get from that once in a generation investment". That "what else" is increasing subway access and reducing overall travel times for people using buses to reach Yonge.

Likewise, Eglinton line is not just relieving Bloor line but also increasing access and saving overall time for a lot of people.

We can't let people travel in crowded east-west buses for hours so that everyone traveling on Yonge subway can have a comfortable 5 feet personal space.

Toronto is not Mumbai or Shanghai. I am not sure where you get this idea that Yonge line will still remain crowded after building a parallel line no more than 5 km away. If Yonge line still gets crowded after 20 years, then it is a success of our transit system, not a failure. Failure is when you a build a subway that no one uses (Sheppard Subway). We can build another relief line on Leslie or Bayview or Bathurst or Avenue if and when the time comes. We are not running out of options as yet.

 

[MrGoose]

Just a quick thought.

Assuming that the Ontario Line get extended, what does the alignment look like and where might the stations be? Also how would the line connect at Don Mills?

Stations: Lawrence, York Mills, ?Duncan Mills? , Sheppard, ?Peanut Plaza? (Probably too small for a station), Finch (or Seneca College), ?Steeles?

If the line remains elevated then the transfer at Sheppard will be quite inconvenient. And going north of Finch will be nearly impossible because of power lines. Also building a bridge over 19 lanes of 401 traffic seems expensive.

So the line will probably go back underground somewhere north of York Mills. That seems like the most convenient place to find the space needed for a tunnel portal.



Also will they ever swap the Science Center and Flemingdon Park station names?

 

[Coolstar]

Just a quick thought.

Assuming that the Ontario Line get extended, what does the alignment look like and where might the stations be? Also how would the line connect at Don Mills?

Stations: Lawrence, York Mills, ?Duncan Mills? , Sheppard, ?Peanut Plaza? (Probably too small for a station), Finch (or Seneca College), ?Steeles?

If the line remains elevated then the transfer at Sheppard will be quite inconvenient. And going north of Finch will be nearly impossible because of power lines. Also building a bridge over 19 lanes of 401 traffic seems expensive.

So the line will probably go back underground somewhere north of York Mills. That seems like the most convenient place to find the space needed for a tunnel portal.



Also will they ever swap the Science Center and Flemingdon Park station names?

I don't think the OL would extend beyond Sheppard if there is a phase 2 for the OL. I can see the line remaining elevated until it dives underground before Don Mills Station. I sure hope Metrolinx swaps the Science Centre and Flemingdon Park names considering that Flemingdon Park on the OL would be much closer to the Science Centre than the Line 5 station.

 

[Rainforest]

I sure hope Metrolinx swaps the Science Centre and Flemingdon Park names considering that Flemingdon Park on the OL would be much closer to the Science Centre than the Line 5 station.

They should rename the ECLRT's station from Science Centre to Don Mills (or something very local) before ECLRT opens. That will avoid any confusion.

 

[MrGoose]

I don't think the OL would extend beyond Sheppard if there is a phase 2 for the OL. I can see the line remaining elevated until it dives underground before Don Mills Station. I sure hope Metrolinx swaps the Science Centre and Flemingdon Park names considering that Flemingdon Park on the OL would be much closer to the Science Centre than the Line 5 station.

I personally think that the OL should extend to Seneca at the very least. Why make students hop that extra 2km?

 

[Tuck]

Just a quick thought.

Assuming that the Ontario Line get extended, what does the alignment look like and where might the stations be? Also how would the line connect at Don Mills?

Stations: Lawrence, York Mills, ?Duncan Mills? , Sheppard, ?Peanut Plaza? (Probably too small for a station), Finch (or Seneca College), ?Steeles?

If the line remains elevated then the transfer at Sheppard will be quite inconvenient. And going north of Finch will be nearly impossible because of power lines. Also building a bridge over 19 lanes of 401 traffic seems expensive.

So the line will probably go back underground somewhere north of York Mills. That seems like the most convenient place to find the space needed for a tunnel portal.

Doubt it will need to go north of Finch in our lifetimes. Heck, probably won't go north of Sheppard though extending to end at Finch/Seneca would be a good idea.

I think tunnelling under the highway would be more expensive than an overpass? It could drop underground at Sheppard, but the interchange at Eglinton will be elevated so why not double down.

Not much between the major arterials. Can probably be Lawrence > York Mills > Sheppard > Finch, in a straight line.

 

[JSF-1]

I think tunnelling under the highway would be more expensive than an overpass? It could drop underground at Sheppard, but the interchange at Eglinton will be elevated so why not double down.

I don't know why you would suggest we keep making the same mistakes. As well I think Don Mills is significantly deeper underground then Science Centre along with the bus terminal being underground as well so an elevated station at Don Mills would be even worse then the one at Science Centre.

 

[Tuck]

I don't know why you would suggest we keep making the same mistakes. As well I think Don Mills is significantly deeper underground then Science Centre along with the bus terminal being underground as well so an elevated station at Don Mills would be even worse then the one at Science Centre.

I'd prefer it be an underground connection at Don Mills, and at Eglinton too. But I recognize that would increase cost.