They are not similar at all and I think that you should stop suggesting that it is. With expropriation they have to give fair market value for the land and buildings. What we did when you are implying is get them drunk hand over a bunch of stuff like blankets and beeds and have them sign something in a language that the didn't understand.

That is not the example I was thinking of.

I can think of a much more recent example, with a government deciding what would be best for the community (and moving them to new, modern housing) so they could build much needed transportation infrastructure.

It took many decades for them to understand why they were very, very wrong.
 
The first idea I heard for the yard is still the best. Build the Obico yard to service line 2. Then the Greenwood yard would be freed up to service this relief line. Of course that would require the same rail gauge and train width to service both lines.
They wouldn't need to run both trains on the same track. You just need a spur off the Ontario Line, along the north side of the GO Tracks to Greenwood Yard. Then rebuild much of the yard for the Ontario Line gauge - perhaps leaving a small area for TTC. Meanwhile moving most TTC to Obico.
 
I think there is a big difference in the article that you linked and Metrolinx paying the landowners fair market value.

If we traveled back in time, the government and those who approved of the actions taken would say the same thing.

'Owners are being compensated and moved at government expense to much better housing.'

'The infrastructure is necessary.'

'It's just a strip mall collection of dilapidated homes that can be replaced.'

I understand the need for expropriation, but that does not absolve the government of their responsibility to the citizens they serve. The way this has been handled should leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead of holding the government accountable, some of us are painting this minority community as devils holding back progress, all because they actually care about their community. This could've been completely avoided with proper consultation and planning. Kind of like they did with the DRL. And that's entirely on the government.
 
If we traveled back in time, the government and those who approved of the actions taken would say the same thing.

'Owners are being compensated and moved at government expense to much better housing.'

'The infrastructure is necessary.'

'It's just a strip mall collection of dilapidated homes that can be replaced.'

I understand the need for expropriation, but that does not absolve the government of their responsibility to the citizens they serve. The way this has been handled should leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead of holding the government accountable, some of us are painting this minority community as devils holding back progress, all because they actually care about their community. This could've been completely avoided with proper consultation and planning. Kind of like they did with the DRL. And that's entirely on the government.
I really think you have no idea what you are talking about. This is also a board for discussion about the project and it will most likely have little to no effect on what Metrolinx actually ends up doing. As many people have said all of their public meetings and counsaltatins are mainly just a meeting to show what they are going to do.
 
I really think you have no idea what you are talking about. This is also a board for discussion about the project and it will most likely have little to no effect on what Metrolinx actually ends up doing. As many people have said all of their public meetings and counsaltatins are mainly just a meeting to show what they are going to do.

Yeah. That's the problem.

Simply saying that it isn't the same does not make it so.
 
Yeah. That's the problem.

Simply saying that it isn't the same does not make it so.
I really don't see that Metrolinx is going to do anything different from what has been announced. I also fail to see why you seem to think that demolition of stores that can go elsewhere in the area and may possibly be already have been looking to move somewhere else is so detrimental to the community that it can be compared to the article that you linked to about the community in Halifax.
 
That is not the example I was thinking of.

I can think of a much more recent example, with a government deciding what would be best for the community (and moving them to new, modern housing) so they could build much needed transportation infrastructure.

It took many decades for them to understand why they were very, very wrong.
displacements of entire ethnic groups out of a city and negotiating with 20 businesses max to help them relocate is not the same thing, and it honestly just shows that you don't actually understand what actually happened in Halifax and the social, racial, socioeconomic, and deeply personal aspects at play there. I agree Metrolinx needs to do better when it comes to community consultation, but it's a strip mall. There may be a grocery store that is very important to not only that community, but a larger South Asian community, but it's a strip mall, and the businesses will be relocated within the area. It's not the expulsion of former slaves from their one safe space, after being systematically repressed and often killed for over a century.
 
I really don't see that Metrolinx is going to do anything different from what has been announced. I also fail to see why you seem to think that demolition of stores that can go elsewhere in the area and may possibly be already have been looking to move somewhere else is so detrimental to the community that it can be compared to the article that you linked to about the community in Halifax.

There's a saying about history...

displacements of entire ethnic groups out of a city and negotiating with 20 businesses max to help them relocate is not the same thing, and it honestly just shows that you don't actually understand what actually happened in Halifax and the social, racial, socioeconomic, and deeply personal aspects at play there. I agree Metrolinx needs to do better when it comes to community consultation, but it's a strip mall. There may be a grocery store that is very important to not only that community, but a larger South Asian community, but it's a strip mall, and the businesses will be relocated within the area. It's not the expulsion of former slaves from their one safe space, after being systematically repressed and often killed for over a century.

I think it's clear we don't understand those issues are at play here, or at the very least are unwilling to even entertain the idea they're factors.

These are exactly the kind of arguments that led to the Africville community being destroyed, and why it took nearly half a century for the government to finally admit they made a mistake.

There is no excuse for the government not handling this properly, and certainly no excuse to villainize the people who care about their community.
 
Do you seriously believe that the forced relocation of residents, stealth demolitions, illegal seizure of title, and the eventual destruction of an entire community,

is even remotely similar to the present situation of the sale of one strip mall and assistance in relocation (I mean, the government, or even a private developer could just get the landlord to end the leases and not bother with any of that), affecting just a few businesses?

Sure, MX could do more to reassure the community that the businesses will be able to stay accessible to the community, but the way things are going right now I don't think MX is doing anything out of line.
 
Would that ugly commercial strip stick around anyway with a rapid transit station opening nearby? The owners would sell it for demolition and higher density mixed use development in seconds.
pretty likely, though the community wouldn't be too happy about that either, and would likely fight against it
 
Kind of the tension of advocating improved transit to a disadvantaged community, then complaining about how that community gets displaced as the area becomes more valuable.
 
pretty likely, though the community wouldn't be too happy about that either, and would likely fight against it
Thus adding even more delays to the economic benefits that'll be recognized by the subway line. Economic benefits come from both construction of the subway line and construction of higher density buildings around it. If any of the two get delayed (Former more likely to be delayed than latter), the line will actually cost us more (As cost of labor and materials goes up) while providing delayed economic benefits.
 
They do?

I don't think the numbers bear that out. The majority of riders using the SRT are going to STC, but that's not the majority of riders at Kennedy.
They don't need to be going to STC to benefit, Kennedy is in Southwest Scarb. most riders are hence coming from the NE, by taking the subway closer to them you reduce their travel time by getting them off buses and onto trains sooner.
Took this from their website, it's amazing just how much cognitive dissonance they're showing:

"The community needs better access to transit and supports the Ontario Line. However, we cannot accept Metrolinx placing a train yard in our community."
Why are they building a railyard in industrial lands next to a rail line I wonder?
The first idea I heard for the yard is still the best. Build the Obico yard to service line 2. Then the Greenwood yard would be freed up to service this relief line. Of course that would require the same rail gauge and train width to service both lines. And then that would deny people the credit they would so rightfully deserve for inventing the wheel once more.
This isn't really a simple solution, you can't use Greenwood as is for modern trains, which is why the TTC has thought a lot about Obico, if you use for OL you need to level it and rebuild and build connecting tunnels (you are not running OL levels of trains between Line 2 trains to access the OL.) Once you get into talking about gauntlet track etc. the complexity is just way too high to make that an attractive solution!
I imagine the businesses are happy to get a big cheque and a relocation, as others have pointed out, they'd like be out after the line was developed and be dealing with construction right next door for years otherwise. There is a narrative painted by the Star here, it doesn't necessarily reflect reality. Imagine who would be upset if a much larger employer in the area was removed to build the yard, the complaints would be about taking jobs away from people.
 

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