[sixrings]

the western part is not a cheap cop out solution, but the eastern half is. If they built the eastern part like they have planed from eglinton down don mills through pape, across wellington it could easily connect with this western leg. It makes a lot of sense where as the ARL made very little sense.

 

[christiesplits]

kind of hard to do that when the coaches have free wifi, large airliner style seats, etc. good luck keeping that in good working condition with $3 fares and crush rush hour loads.

Perhaps a compromise would be to run the premium "UPX" from Pearson to Weston and then continue the dedicated electrified subway/LRT from Weston to Union. This would be similar to the JFK Airport train to the MTA subway.

 

[gweed123]

it isn't even possible to build, so don't worry. Especially for the Eastern portion. There is only room for 4 tracks on the Lakeshore east corridor, and those are all taken up by GO and VIA. (the fourth will be constructed whenever Stouffville gets all day 2 way)

Plus how much relief would yonge+bloor really get when you are intercepting passengers at Kennedy?

Agreed. My GO REX proposal would involve using all 4 tracks for GO (with middle express tracks for VIA). 2 for local service, 2 for express. There's simply no room to put any kind of subway in there, unless you want to elevate above the rail corridor, which would be a huge waste of money for what would essentially be a duplication of service.

 

[CapitalSeven]

What might work is to build the east branch as a new subway, then continuing past Liberty Village on the railway line, perhaps even with more than one branch. It would likely require a different vehicle. It could do the same thing north/east of Don Mills. I'm sure practically everyone has thought of an arrangement like that, except, apparently, anyone holding public office.

This latest poorly thought out idea is mostly about building more subways subways subways in Scarborough, I think.

 

[Rainforest]

What might work is to build the east branch as a new subway, then continuing past Liberty Village on the railway line, perhaps even with more than one branch. It would likely require a different vehicle. It could do the same thing north/east of Don Mills. I'm sure practically everyone has thought of an arrangement like that, except, apparently, anyone holding public office.

None of them, with a possible exception of Andy Byford and 2 or 3 Councillors with technical background, have a chance to analyze the pros / cons and constraints of a proposal that blends the use of tunnels with the use of a mainline rail corridors. There are many details that need to be addressed: clearances, voltages, signal systems, FRA regulations etc.

Experts have to guide the said politicians, before the latter will be able to say anything useful on this matter.

You proposal sounds very interesting.

 

[drum118]

Agreed. My GO REX proposal would involve using all 4 tracks for GO (with middle express tracks for VIA). 2 for local service, 2 for express. There's simply no room to put any kind of subway in there, unless you want to elevate above the rail corridor, which would be a huge waste of money for what would essentially be a duplication of service.

You have no room to put up centre support columns to keep the cost down for an elevated twin line. There is no room to put columns along the edge of the corridor in many place to support a deeper support beam that will push the elevation higher for the tracks as well the cost.

If you are going elevated, you will have to be real high to get over all the overpasses along the corridor to the point you could be 21m above ground or more.

If you have full fare integration and using Kennedy, there will be a spike in ridership for the Stouffville line, but the overall impact on the BD will be a drop in the bucket.

How many houses & business will have to be torn down as well rebuilding all the overpasses to get an elevated line in or increasing the corridor to 6 tracks. Sound like the Scarborough Expressway mess that got kill decades ago again.

Wrong place for the Relief Line.

 

[dunkalunk]

I've been thinking about eastern alignments and I don't think I've seen one that does the following:

Since the rail corridor is contstrained considerably though this area, why not avoid it entirely and use that as an opportunity to skirt the northern edge of the port lands?

 

[gweed123]

You have no room to put up centre support columns to keep the cost down for an elevated twin line. There is no room to put columns along the edge of the corridor in many place to support a deeper support beam that will push the elevation higher for the tracks as well the cost.

If you are going elevated, you will have to be real high to get over all the overpasses along the corridor to the point you could be 21m above ground or more.

If you have full fare integration and using Kennedy, there will be a spike in ridership for the Stouffville line, but the overall impact on the BD will be a drop in the bucket.

How many houses & business will have to be torn down as well rebuilding all the overpasses to get an elevated line in or increasing the corridor to 6 tracks. Sound like the Scarborough Expressway mess that got kill decades ago again.

Wrong place for the Relief Line.

I know. I wasn't saying it was a good idea. In fact, I was saying the exact opposite. It's a terrible idea, for the reasons you mentioned, and because it's simply the wrong place for a subway line.

 

[drum118]

I know. I wasn't saying it was a good idea. In fact, I was saying the exact opposite. It's a terrible idea, for the reasons you mentioned, and because it's simply the wrong place for a subway line.

I was trying to reinforce your view and yes a real dumb ass plan.

All the GO lines need to be beef up to offer 10 minute service to more stations on those line along with the current type of service. I have said in the past you can have the milk run, hop scotch, mid express, current service and long express, all running at different time with the milk run every 10 minutes. This way people can pick and chooses the type of service they want to use if it meets their schedule. You need double track with short block signals.

You need a line up either Don Mills or Victoria Park to at least Sheppard to have some effect on the Yonge Line regardless what happens on the GO lines, but preferable to Hwy 7 to really deal with Yonge.

Regardless what we do, a new Yonge line will have to be built around 2050 to deal with all the development plan for Yonge St now, let along other plans that will surface over time.

I still say we need to look at double deck trains on the relief line and the ability to connect to GO System and operate on it as branch line service.

 

[k10ery]

People are complaining this proposal is no good because there is no room on Lakeshore East, there is no room at Union, and it would intercept the Danforth line too far east to relieve the Bloor-Danforth interchange.

If you think about it, all these problems are solved if you just buy the North Toronto subdivision, then run trains from Agincourt and Etobicoke North down to a new transfer station at Spadina and Dupont. A full DRL, on the surface and on the cheap.

 

[drum118]

People are complaining this proposal is no good because there is no room on Lakeshore East, there is no room at Union, and it would intercept the Danforth line too far east to relieve the Bloor-Danforth interchange.

If you think about it, all these problems are solved if you just buy the North Toronto subdivision, then run trains from Agincourt and Etobicoke North down to a new transfer station at Spadina and Dupont. A full DRL, on the surface and on the cheap.

It does not solve the problem, but help some what.

The Milton Line was to be a split line with every other train using this line and going east to Agincourt or further east.

The station is already in place for the Yonge line, but the line can't handle the ridership.

Have to build a new station at Dupont for the Spadina Line that currently has room for riders, but riders will have to travel around the loop to get to the Yonge Line stop. How much will a rider travel time be is unknown as well costing a rider extra fare to use TTC when they don't do it now.

The Crosstown Line has been on the book for a few decades, but this is CP mainline to the US at 2 different points.

There is enough room for 4 tracks in this corridor to allow 2 tracks for CP and 2 for GO. Will have to look at how you grade separate the various road crossing and that not easy to do without tearing homes and business down.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Then maybe make a new GO Line on Yonge complete with double decker trains and 10 carriages long, might be a bit more relieving.

 

[Adjei]

It does not solve the problem, but help some what.

The Milton Line was to be a split line with every other train using this line and going east to Agincourt or further east.

The station is already in place for the Yonge line, but the line can't handle the ridership.

Have to build a new station at Dupont for the Spadina Line that currently has room for riders, but riders will have to travel around the loop to get to the Yonge Line stop. How much will a rider travel time be is unknown as well costing a rider extra fare to use TTC when they don't do it now.

The Crosstown Line has been on the book for a few decades, but this is CP mainline to the US at 2 different points.

There is enough room for 4 tracks in this corridor to allow 2 tracks for CP and 2 for GO. Will have to look at how you grade separate the various road crossing and that not easy to do without tearing homes and business down.

How much do you think it will cost to construct a crosstown line?

 

[k10ery]

If you put this together with a Bala-to-Belleville connection, I think it does solve the problem: The you've got a Don Mills "subway" and a Scarborough "subway".

I guess you could have 4 tracks on the North Toronto sub. Or you could move the freight traffic to CN's York sub. Even if a track had to be added there, I think that would mean fewer new bridges than on North Toronto/Belleville. It would also help in dealing with Rosedale NIMBYs!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You need a line up either Don Mills or Victoria Park to at least Sheppard to have some effect on the Yonge Line regardless what happens on the GO lines, but preferable to Hwy 7 to really deal with Yonge.

Thank you drum! The politicians, TTC and Metrolinx seem completely oblivious about this. The current DRL arrangement does little to reduce ridership on the Yonge Subway. The TTCs own numbers in the DRL study showed this. All the DRL will do is reduce the number of transfers on Bloor-Yonge. What we need is a subway on Don Mills to give riders a third route going downtown (Spadina, Yonge and Don Mills). My educated guess is that ridership would be a little lower than that of the Spadina subway since both Don Mills and Spadina are of similar density and have plenty of connecting surface routes (whether that be LRT or busses). Why the TTC or anyone else hasn't proposed this is beyond me. It is such an obvious solution to what is arguably the most urgent transit problem in this city.

The only proposal that came close to solving the Yonge issue was the Don Mills LRT. But that line was poorly thought out and would do little to reduce ridership on Yonge due to the Pape transfer.

Anyways I suspect that we'll be hearing Don Mills subway in about 10 years when the Yonge Subway extension and Sheppard and Eglinton LRTs open. It will be at that point that people will start realizing that building two new RT lines and one subway extension to feed into the already over capacity Yonge Subway without providing an alternative route was an incredibly dumb move. And then there's the whole LRT to Subway transfer situation at Don Mills station which Scarborough residents will not be happy about. I have no doubt that once the Sheppard LRT opens, they'll be demanding an alternative route downtown with only one transfer.