sixrings said:
Someone sure as hell sounds bent out of shape to me. Thecrosstown.ca has most of your answers for the eglinton line and we are basically speculating on the DRL line. Actually you know whose bent out of shape. I am.. Because everyday I open these posts for either news or good discussion and the thread keeps getting derailed by someone who is taking things too personally.
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Well, if the crosstown has all the answers, then it has all the news to right!
 
I got an email today, public meetings are starting.


City of Toronto - e-updates

Hello!

The City of Toronto and the TTC are starting to plan for the "Relief Line Project Assessment", a future rapid transit line that would connect downtown Toronto to the Bloor-Danforth Subway Line east of the Don River. It will assist in relieving crowding on the Yonge Subway line and the Bloor-Yonge interchange station as well as provide riders with more travel options.

Thanks for your interest in this important project!
Public Meetings

Please plan to attend one of the upcoming public meetings! The first two meetings are behind hosted jointly by the City of Toronto/TTC and Metrolinx. The City/TTC will be seeking input on the proposed study process and public consultation plan for the Relief Line Project Assessment. In addition, Metrolinx is looking at regional network options to relieve transit crowding on the Yonge corridor and improve how people move around the region. Metrolinx is seeking input on the preliminary list of options and how they are evaluated.

The meeting format will feature an open house for the first hour, a presentation followed by questions and answers, and facilitated table discussions.

Meeting 1

Saturday, April 5, 2014
Sheraton Centre, Dominion Ballroom
123 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON
Time: 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. (Presentation starts at 10:00 a.m.)

Meeting 2

Thursday, April 10, 2014
Riverdale Collegiate Institute
1094 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, ON
Time: 5:30 p.m.- 9:30 p.m. (Presentation starts at 6:30 p.m.)

A third meeting will focus only on the Relief Line between downtown and the Bloor-Danforth Subway Line:

Meeting 3

Saturday, April 12, 2014
Holy Name Parish
71 Gough Avenue
Toronto, ON
Time: 9:00 a.m.- 12:00 p.m.

If you cannot attend any of these meetings, all material will be posted online.

Website

If you haven't already, please take some time to visit reliefline.ca. This website will be the hub for public engagement and information about the study and will be updated regularly.

You can currently provide feedback about both the study process and public consultation plan by answering a few short questions on the website.
 
As I understand it, the meetings (starting April 5th) are to (from this link):
develop a detailed Public Consultation Plan with input from the public.

The proposed Relief Line Project Assessment Study Terms of Reference covers four areas:


  • Introduction and Background: Define the problem; provide rationale for a proposed solution.
  • Purpose of the Study: Who is responsible, how we will work together and what the outcome will be.
  • Scope of Work: The process for arriving at a recommendation.
  • Public Consultation and Communications: Our approach and program for engaging the public.
The Terms of Reference and Public Consultation Plan will be brought to City Council for approval, after which the project will proceed. It is anticipated this phase of work will be completed by early summer of 2014.
- See more at: http://www.regionalrelief.ca/city-of-toronto/the-process/phases#sthash.96jlu895.dpuf
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After the summer, comes the next phase, which by the end of 2014, will provide:

The objective of the Relief Line Project Assessment Phase 1B consultation will be to:

  • Introduce the study to the public;
  • Include a synopsis of existing and future conditions; and,
  • Provide background work from the earlier studies including the technology analysis.
Key elements for the public to comment/input on will include:

  • Rationale for the project;
  • Problem statement; and,
  • Proposed study process.
- See more at: http://www.regionalrelief.ca/city-of-toronto/the-process/phases#sthash.96jlu895.dpuf
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The "long list" of options, coming in 2015, will provide:
will include consideration of alternative station locations, including terminus point alternatives along the Bloor-Danforth and in the Downtown, and alignment options including options for crossing of the Don Valley. Development of the draft evaluation framework and criteria will consider a variety of approaches that are applicable to planning and engineering studies, and will consider both qualitative and quantitative measures. - See more at: http://www.regionalrelief.ca/city-of-toronto/the-process/phases#sthash.96jlu895.dpuf
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The "short list" should only come out by the end of 2015. No construction of anything is possible for another two more years after that. I think shovels in the ground by 2018, if not later.
 
W. K. Lis said:
As I understand it, the meetings (starting April 5th) are to (from this link):


After the summer, comes the next phase, which by the end of 2014, will provide:



The "long list" of options, coming in 2015, will provide:


The "short list" should only come out by the end of 2015. No construction of anything is possible for another two more years after that. I think shovels in the ground by 2018, if not later.
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Transportation EAs only require a six month analysis. Shovels could be in ground by late 2016 if there was a general will and consensus between everyone about it. Ofcourse, the EA will need to find funding as well as the capital cost of the rest of the line. But the consultation shouldn't require more than 2 years to complete if funding is found and everything is set upon. One of the harder parts for a project like this would be expropriations for stations and electrical facilities/ maintenance shafts/ fire exits, especially since there's little to no green space where these can be built and as such it takes time coming to an agreement with existing land owners to push them off the land. Dunno how much land the City or Province owns on any of the potential corridors to possibly mitigate the need for expropriation....Then again I am overly optimistic about things like this.
 
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I hope BMO is right because 2018 is a depressingly long time to wait until construction can begin. I understand it's a multi-billion dollar project that requires a lot of study and design work, but still you can understand why so many people are cynical about transit due to the insanely long timelines and flip-flopping decisions.

I'm leaning towards the idea of voting for people who seem to want to accelerate the process as much as possible.
 
ehlow said:
I hope BMO is right because 2018 is a depressingly long time to wait until construction can begin. I understand it's a multi-billion dollar project that requires a lot of study and design work, but still you can understand why so many people are cynical about transit due to the insanely long timelines and flip-flopping decisions.

I'm leaning towards the idea of voting for people who seem to want to accelerate the process as much as possible.
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to put it in perspective, the Yonge extension has been ready for construction for over 5 years now. If it had been funded and constructed right when the EA and everything was completed we could've had it built already. While the actual process for these big projects is quite a lot of work between EAs and PCs it really does get delayed, more so than anything, by fiscal constraints rather than engineering constraints, at least in terms of getting shovels in the ground.
 
BMO said:
to put it in perspective, the Yonge extension has been ready for construction for over 5 years now. If it had been funded and constructed right when the EA and everything was completed we could've had it built already. While the actual process for these big projects is quite a lot of work between EAs and PCs it really does get delayed, more so than anything, by fiscal constraints rather than engineering constraints, at least in terms of getting shovels in the ground.
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Yeah and the Finch & Sheppard LRTs are both funded and shovel ready yet we're still waiting years for them to start.

You're right though, those are the two key components and the north Yonge extension is missing the funding. However it seems like the political stars are aligned for the DRL to actually get started. Anyways I'll report back once I go to one of the public meetings.
 
BMO said:
Transportation EAs only require a six month analysis. Shovels could be in ground by late 2016 if there was a general will and consensus between everyone about it.
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Absolutely not. An EA might only take six months, but that's assuming you have a route and station locations picked out beforehand. And there's no way you could have construction-ready design drawings pulled together that quickly.

BMO said:
to put it in perspective, the Yonge extension has been ready for construction for over 5 years now. If it had been funded and constructed right when the EA and everything was completed we could've had it built already. While the actual process for these big projects is quite a lot of work between EAs and PCs it really does get delayed, more so than anything, by fiscal constraints rather than engineering constraints, at least in terms of getting shovels in the ground.
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Again, you're omitting a whole chunk of any big transit project involving rooms of engineers punching away at AutoCAD for thousands of hours.

In most cases, you can't hand over the kind of maps and charts that come out the back end of an EA to a general contractor and say "build that". There was a multi-year gap between the completion of the Spadina subway EA and tendering station construction contracts because the detailed design work had to happen first. Detailed design is happening on Eglinton's underground stations as we speak, despite the fact the EA was completed several years ago and there's been confirmed funding and direction to move as quickly as possible for that whole time. (AFAIK the tunnels got designed first and they've managed to get them underway earlier).
 
Platform 27 said:
Absolutely not. An EA might only take six months, but that's assuming you have a route and station locations picked out beforehand. And there's no way you could have construction-ready design drawings pulled together that quickly.



Again, you're omitting a whole chunk of any big transit project involving rooms of engineers punching away at AutoCAD for thousands of hours.

In most cases, you can't hand over the kind of maps and charts that come out the back end of an EA to a general contractor and say "build that". There was a multi-year gap between the completion of the Spadina subway EA and tendering station construction contracts because the detailed design work had to happen first. Detailed design is happening on Eglinton's underground stations as we speak, despite the fact the EA was completed several years ago and there's been confirmed funding and direction to move as quickly as possible for that whole time. (AFAIK the tunnels got designed first and they've managed to get them underway earlier).
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I'm obviously simplifying what is, otherwise, a very complicated process. The fact is that if there is a will there is a way. I've worked in the industry for a few years now (to do with technical drawings) and I know it's much more than showing up with a map and telling some contractors to build it. You can't argue that if everyone had their ducks in a row and we knew for sure that building X using Y technology was set upon, that construction could certainly start sooner than 2018, taking into account current synergies already available in the region.
 
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If construction were able to start by 2018 I'd be happy as a clam. I can't imagine it would even proceed THAT quickly though. I'm hoping that if all the stars align, it may begin construction for 2020 when the Eglinton line opens.

Based on nothing but past history of course
 
The Relief Line's southern terminal should not be Lower Spadina. It should be Exhibition Place. If BMO field is to expand, it would be better if a higher capacity rapid transit line can reduce the need for parking at Exhibition Place.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The Relief Line's southern terminal should not be Lower Spadina. It should be Exhibition Place. If BMO field is to expand, it would be better if a higher capacity rapid transit line can reduce the need for parking at Exhibition Place.
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I don't think they'd build the relief line far enough south to intersect Lower Spadina Avenue. It would surely stay north of the Gardiner.

And even then, should a relief line be that convenient for BMO Field? It won't be designed for occasional events. I doubt the station would be south of King. King and Dufferin? King and the Kitchener/Barrie line? It's still going to be a bit of a hike. BMO Field already has a GO station, which currently has service to Union every 30 minutes off-peak.

There's lots of reasons to build Phase 1 west of Spadina. The biggest being that King is already a disaster zone between Spadina and Bathurst in rush hour ... and will only get worse if everyone has to board streetcars at King/Spadina. I'd think Bathurst would be a logocal end point for Phase 1. It's only 600 metres further west than Spadina, and doesn't sterilize future options.
 
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