How was I to know how long it would be delayed.
- Thread starter JasonParis
- Start date
How was I to know how long it would be delayed.
nfitz
Superstar
As far as I recall, the bottleneck is the dwell time at Yonge-Bloor station. ATO does nothing to fix that. And the new higher-capacity TR trains, that have no more doors than the old ones, actually make it worse.
It's not a question of wherever we are screwed or not - but which orifice to use.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
There are two significant capacity constraints on Yonge Line not related to ATO:
1. Finch crossover design. The track geometry at that crossover is such that trains take a significant amount of time to safety travel through the crossover - this is what is holding us back from achieving the theoretical ATO headways of 90 seconds. This can't be fixed until the Yonge North Extension is built.
2. As you mentioned, Bloor-Yonge Station. The longer trains spend in station loading passengers, the less the effective capacity of Yonge Line. The only way to fix this is by diverting people away from the station with the Relief Line.
You mentioned that the TR having more doors makes the B-Y dwell issues worse. How is that?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
He said no more doors than the old T1 - more capacity, same number of doors = takes longer to empty/board at the station.
Union Station is getting pretty bad in the evening as well - and that's post-renovation.
AoD
nfitz
Superstar
Because you can fit more passengers (1100) on the train than on the 1000 on the T1 trains (that run on the BD line). If the train is full (as it was today) and half the trains gets off, you have to wait to detrain 550 people instead of 500 people. Presumably that adds up to 10% to the time it takes everyone to get off.
salsa
Senior Member
But don't the new trains have wider doors than the old ones?
Tuscani01
Senior Member
This old story says yes, and that the new trains would shave up to 90 seconds between some stations:
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/21/the-new-red-rocket-has-arrived
The question is did that improvement actually pan out, or was it just an improvement on paper?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I have my doubts about that one. I can't think of any scenario that would, given the constant speed/acceleration, save that much time just from boarding at two stations. The new trains are nice and needed, but the sell on that basis doesn't pass the smell test.
Now if you extend that and assume whatever marginal decrease of boarding time at busy stations will reduce cascade delays further back vis-a-vis using the old trains, that's something else - but is there any evidence of that? You'd think that would be "compensated" by increase in the number of riders such that there is little to no change.
AoD
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nfitz
Superstar
The old retired ones - but they are the same as the non-articulated T1 cars on the Bloor-Danforth line.
So I guess there's a bit of savings compared to the old 1970s cars - but they are the same as the more recent cars they used to run on Line 1. So with a 10% increase in capacity, and no change in door width, there is going to be a longer dwell.
1overcosc
Active Member
That might be a good reason to justify an interim extension of the Yonge line to Steeles or even just to Cummer. Isn't the Yonge North extension shovel-ready? With federal dollars, something like that could be built reasonably quickly.
Towered
Senior Member
What's there to hate? It's an extremely efficient method of commuting.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Yep, I could bike from Humber Bay Shores to downtown in half the time that the 501 takes.
crs1026
Superstar
It's a great way to get around, but that doesn't negate the need for transit that works. If you board a subway train with a reasonable expectation that it will take you to someplace, and it drops you off a mile short of where it was supposed to, then something isn't working - even if you enjoy the walk.
Some of the reasons why people don't use these things do make sense if you analyse them. (Like having to wear a suit some days, and not having a place to shower at the destination, which may be somewhere other than your own office). The barriers may be solvable, but people who are implementing change have to lead the horses to water. And wait patiently until they take a sip.
We do have a problem with an overcrowded subway. I don't think that turning away anyone who looks like they could be biking, or walking, or whatever is a constructive solution to that problem. Building a Relief Line would be constructive.
- Paul
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
when? when? Honestly, UT members should start digging
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Bleh, funding for the Relief Line is going to have to materialize really soon. The only thing remaining in the Relief Line planning process, before we can tender, is the EA, which can be completed as soon as end of 2016. Someone give us money!