[Avenue]

Food for thought for today:

Forgetting the "Relief" component of this subway towards the Yonge Line for a moment.... Would we need a Queen Street subway if we gave the King and Queen Streetcar their own transit lanes and removed cars from those downtown streets?

Yes. Despite everybody rushing to declare it a miracle on twitter to get likes and RTs, King streetcar is very very slow to be serving such large ridership. Cutting maybe 15 minutes out of a 50-minute commute does not erase the need for proper transit in one of the densest areas of Canada. Imagine it took 35 minutes instead of 10 from Bloor-Dufferin to Bloor-Yonge, just like it does today on King... There still needs to be a subway there, and preferably under King - not Queen.

(I wrote this post based on the current modifications in the pilot, as simply removing cars on these streets isn't realistic)

 

[syn]

I think the demand for a Queen or King subway line was there quite a long time ago - it's just not politically feasible.

Removing all cars from one of them would be great, but given the spacing of intersections I'm still not sure the speed would be adequate.

 

[Reno eagle]

I think the idea having either king or queen free of cars altogether is great.

I doubt there have been any feasibility studies done altogether...

 

[44 North]

No kidding, it's like someone trying to pick out china patterns after Tinder.

AoD

I think it's a good discussion, not for starting a petition or anything but just transit chat. We'll be seeing placeholder station names listed in reports for many years, so it'd be nice to know what they could or couldn't be refined to when all's said and done. And plus two of the stations will likely be sharing names with GO stations, which should be in place a lot sooner and afaik don't have official names yet. Side rant: if one of those stations is East Harbour I think it sets a bad precedent. It's the name of a mostly private development. At least with something like Canary Wharf there was a preexisting Canary Wharf. With East Harbour there is no "East Harbour", it's just some name a developer came up with a couple years ago.

 

[Edward Skira]

I guess we should rename Yorkdale Station then.

 

[44 North]

I guess we should rename Yorkdale Station then.

Did the general Yorkdale area or Yorkdale Rd predate the mall? Is the station technicaly named after the mall, or the area and road? I honestly don't know. But my view on the use of naming after a private development isn't really my own, it's more something I recall from reading a TTC report from a few years ago. and their view on the matter

 

[W. K. Lis]

While not DRL, there is information from the PDF on NEW SMARTTRACK/GO RER STATIONS TECHNICAL & PLANNING UPDATE. at this link, that has information of relevance to the future area around Gerrard, Pape, and Carlaw.

Further Design and Technical Considerations

• Determine feasibility of a future Route 505 streetcar extension and termination loop on the current LCBO site
• Connectivity between the future Gerrard Relief Line Station and Gerrard SmartTrack Station
• Third southern station access point.
• Impacts on bordering properties due to construction of the Pape Avenue pedestrian underpass and restriction of access to Pape Avenue
• Minimizing impacts on the Gerrard Square Mall loading facilities by refining the alignment of the track and platforms.
• Replacement of the existing Pape Avenue pedestrian bridge may need to be undertaken to accommodate the Metrolinx electrification project.

 

[Forgotten]

Because King is too close to SmartTrack. And also because City Planning wanted a station at the "psychological heart" of Toronto at Nathan Philips Square, and because Queen served more priority neighbourhoods like Moss/Regent Park. Also it avoided the additional cost of deep tunneling at Unilever.

But then they decided that serving Unilever was important and still stayed with Queen street.

Most questionable transit decisions (DRL on Queen, no grade-separations on Eglinton west/east, Waterfront funicular, slow Queen's Quay streetcar, the confusing King street pilot, etc.) can be directly traced to City Planning.

Tread carefully... the Keesmat led planning department is a sacred cow around here, almost beyond reproach to many. When you actually spell out the number of disasters they've had their dirty hands in it paints a different and very unflattering picture.

 

[Momo49]

Tread carefully... the Keesmat led planning department is a sacred cow around here, almost beyond reproach to many. When you actually spell out the number of disasters they've had their dirty hands in it paints a different and very unflattering picture.

Slow your roll on the name calling, the waterfront funicular is a waterfront toronto idea, according to Andy Byford at the TTC board mtg of Nov 13.

 

[innsertnamehere]

And city planning is shutting down the poor options very quickly. I would be surprised if the preferred option actually ends up being the funicular.

 

[W. K. Lis]

We need to build the Relief Line. Not just between Osgoode and Pape Stations, but between Dundas West and Don Mills & Sheppard. Then, and only then, we can put in congestion fees for single-occupant automobiles that come into the downtown, but more transit malls (IE. Queen Street).

See (link) article on London Traffic Would Be At Least 20 Percent Slower Without Congestion Pricing

The number of automobiles entering London’s center each day has plunged by 44 percent since the start of congestion charging, even as the total number of people entering grew 23 percent.

 

[aquateam]

Slow your roll on the name calling, the waterfront funicular is a waterfront toronto idea, according to Andy Byford at the TTC board mtg of Nov 13.

The overall process is being led by City Planning though, so they need to take ownership of the results.
https://www.toronto.ca/city-governm...studies-initiatives/waterfront-transit-reset/

And I can't say for sure whose bad idea it was, but Steve Munro's impression is that it's City Planning who is ignoring transportation concerns.

City Planning staff are rather dismissive of TTC concerns about the transit/pedestrian crossing and cavalierly say this could be handled with platform doors or gates. This raises questions about the TTC’s role in the process and whether the City is driving the replacement of streetcars in the Bay Street tunnel no matter what.

Can the TTC please take back planning of transit infrastructure again? I’m ready. At this rate I’d be happy to see planning for all of the proposed transit projects taken out of the hands of City Planning who can’t seem to act in the best interests of the people who will be using what these jokers are doodling on their napkins and Powerpoints.

Steve: The transition took place under Jennifer Keesmaat’s watch as Chief Planner, and it will be interesting to see what happens after she leaves.

 

[micheal_can]

We need to build the Relief Line. Not just between Osgoode and Pape Stations, but between Dundas West and Don Mills & Sheppard. Then, and only then, we can put in congestion fees for single-occupant automobiles that come into the downtown, but more transit malls (IE. Queen Street).

See (link) article on London Traffic Would Be At Least 20 Percent Slower Without Congestion Pricing

By building it in stages, opening the segments, it allows for development to occur on a slowed pace. It also means that more immediate effects will be felt on Line1.

 

[M II A II R II K]

So because of fire codes influence on how underground stations are built like what we see in new extension I take it that that completely new DRL stations that aren’t interchanges would have 2 or 3 underground levels and each level would be at least 20 foot high.

 

[W. K. Lis]

So because of fire codes influence on how underground stations are built like what we see in new extension I take it that that completely new DRL stations that aren’t interchanges would have 2 or 3 underground levels and each level would be at least 20 foot high.

The relief line tunnels will be deeper than the Line 2 (Bloor-Danforth) or the Line 4 (Sheppard) tunnels. Heights would depend on construction techniques and architectural designs. How many levels will depend upon where the fare collection will occur or if an underground vehicle transfer level would used.

From link.