robmausser
Senior Member
Apparently, and this is just a quote from the transportation minister, not some written clause, the Ontario Line will use the same alignment and tunnel as the Relief Line portion, so hopefully this work can continue.
- Thread starter JasonParis
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Apparently, and this is just a quote from the transportation minister, not some written clause, the Ontario Line will use the same alignment and tunnel as the Relief Line portion, so hopefully this work can continue.
nfitz
Superstar
You might not have a clue, but I suspect that at least the specs for the boring machine are known within TTC. That they are issuing an RFP for tunnel liners suggests that!
Tuscani01
Senior Member
The RFI for tunnel boring machines just closed yesterday. I guess that means a bidder has been selected already if they are moving forward with sourcing tunnel liner?
nfitz
Superstar
I'd think they'd issue an RFQ or an RFP first. I wasn't aware there was an RFI out already ...
... this all seems bog standard to me. Not sure why anyone is surprised by this.
steveintoronto
Superstar
This is all just a follow-on from this:
https://tunnellingjournal.com/ttc-requests-eoi-relief-line-south-tbm-procurement/WRITTEN BY TRIS THOMAS ON 30/04/2019 IN NEWS
TAGGED:
The Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) has announced that it intends to procure its own Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) for the twin bored tunnels for the proposed Relief Line South subway transit line, in Toronto, Canada. TTC will make these TBMs available to the tunnelling contractor who will be responsible for TBM operation and maintenance.
Toronto Relief Line South alignment
The City of Toronto, TTC and Metrolinx are planning the Relief Line to relieve crowding on its existing metro network and provide more travel options to transit riders throughout Toronto. The Relief Line is being studied in two parts: Relief Line North (RLN) and Relief Line South (RLS). The proposed RLS is a 7.5km long subway line with 8 stations that will connect the Yonge-University-Spadina Subway (Line 1) downtown to the Bloor-Danforth Subway (Line 2). The RLS will help to relieve crowding on Line 1 south of Bloor, at the Bloor-Yonge Station, and on the surface transit routes coming in and out of downtown.
The TTC is requesting an Expression of Interest (EOI) from entities interested in the design, fabrication, and providing technical and maintenance support during the construction of tunnelling activities for the TBMs. The purpose of this Request for Expression of Interest (RFEOI) is to gauge interest in the TBM procurement and gather information for the development of the contracts. Responses to the RFEOI will: 1) provide feedback from potential proponents to help develop the contract; and 2) provide a basis for further questions and identify participants for the subsequent Market Sounding exercise.
While submission of an EOI is not a prerequisite for participating in the eventual procurement process for the TBMs, interested entities are being encouraged to submit an EOI with detailed comments. The request was issued on April 9 and has a closing date of May 9. More information can be found on the project web site.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Should this be taken as the idea of bridging over lower Don being abandoned, the TTC-designed tunnels accepted, and any Provincial modifications will apply to the rolling stock and the sections north of Danforth / west of University only?
Or, is this the case of classical throw-away work?
Or, is this the case of classical throw-away work?
steveintoronto
Superstar
Hard to say definitively, but contrary to what other posters claim, it's bizarre.
Someone hasn't got the memo it seems. They're still operating on old orders:
http://reliefline.ca/south/the-project/faqs
Make of that what you will, but it seems to me that idiocy is not the unique domain of the Ford Gang.
I'd suggest someone at City Hall offer an explanation, and PDQ. Even if the Relief Line as conceived by the TTC is resurrected once Ford is gone, it can never be the way City Hall/TTC have envisioned it. The financing *Just Isn't There!*. When do they ever 'get it'? QP doesn't have the funding either. How obvious does that have to be, and yet a good number of posters still hang off of every word from Verster's, Yurek's and Ford's lying lips.
The funding will be *Private*! And with that comes that consortium's own specs and procurement. Much of it won't even go out to tender, the participants will be vertically integrated enough to build it with their own companies, factories and know-how.
And compared to the Ford Fiasco? Thank God for Private, as the fool named Ford and his fellatio friends won't have much of anything to do with it. Better the private vendor you know who wants your business and will cater to keeping you as a customer than idiot blowhards in QP who haven't a clue.
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crs1026
Superstar
^The conspiracy theorist in me says this is the City’s way of demonstrating that the Relief Line design and engineering is mature and ready to execute, whereas the Ontario Line design is just a napkin in Ford’s suit pocket. The screwup theory is that this is just left-hand, right-hand inertia. There are far more screwups in life than conspiracies - but I can live with tnis one.
- Paul
- Paul
Tuscani01
Senior Member
I wouldn't even call it a screw up. The city did put aside extra money to expedite the planning and prep for the relief line before Ford revealed that he was going back to the drawing board. These RFP/RFI's all came out of that.
The idea at the time was to do the design, planning, and acquisition all at the same time and money was budgeted to do this work ahead of time vs. traditional projects where they were done in sequence.
The idea at the time was to do the design, planning, and acquisition all at the same time and money was budgeted to do this work ahead of time vs. traditional projects where they were done in sequence.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I would agree with that, except:
If that momentum is still in place, then why is the City spending big money on items for a project that it can't possibly complete, let alone own?
TBMs don't come cheap.
Something has gone awry here...
You obviously "don't have a clue" since all that's been determined as per TBM specs is tunnel bore, and that's 5.4m. For a conventional subway as per existing. Over to you...feel absolutely free to supply the details of this being built. You can start with the funding.
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nfitz
Superstar
In everything official I've seen from the Ministry and Metrolinx, "bridge over the Don" could have simply have referred to the bridge they've been planning (for half a century!) over the Don, between O'Connor and Thornecliffe Park.
Beyond that, we've got a lot contradictory comments and speculation. None of which give me confidence that this line will be built faster than the city has planned. If there's any hope of maintaining the current 2029 opening date, the city needs to move ahead on contracts. While it may be fool-hardy to actually award anything at this time, the cost of EOIs, etc., is cheap.
EOIs cost virtually nothing. Nor do RFQs.
You said "They haven't a clue on what boring machine is to be used ... let alone the spec for the ID, OD". But now you know the exact diameter? LOL!
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steveintoronto
Superstar
There has been nothing freom Metrolinx or QP directly in print on this, which is why Verster and others have been quoted exactly in print and in video of stating the location in discussion many times. Perhaps the terms "Eastern Av" "East Harbour Station" and "cross platform connection" might slim down the possibilities of what's being indicated somewhat?
As to "5.4m" it's in the TTC's literature, been quoted and referenced in this string.
No you don't. There's no indication so far of grout allowance and wall thickness, directional curve radii horizontally and vertically which is exactly why "tunnel bore diameter" in itself is misleading in terms of the actual cutter-head and TBM body diameters, which btw are not the same. The head has to be larger than the body, or it goes nowhere. And that's why I detailed "ID and OD" for the liner segments, plus the 'key' segment is spec'd differently again. And it's dependent on the TBM configuration. But I digress. Over to you. Be sure to provide your reference.
As to the "Ontario Line"....other than the bridge discussion, and talk anywhere from "narrower" to "able to handle more passengers" nothing is known about the "new tech" save for it "not being compatible with the present subway". And it's approaching two months now since the announcement.
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nfitz
Superstar
Or that they have been poorly briefed, and don't fully understand the project. Not everything that everyone from the Ministry and Metrolinx has said can be true. Making assumptions here will only make asses.
steveintoronto
Superstar
The TBM procurement process is from the TTC/City.
http://reliefline.ca/south/the-project/faqs and elsewhere at the TTC and sites like:
http://www.tunnelsonline.info/news/ttc-issues-rfeoi-for-relief-line-south-tbm-7154937
jje1000
Senior Member
I wonder when we'll see the next update from Metrolinx and the Conservatives? This fall? Next year?
This project still feels rather nebulous, and I hope we'll see something more substantial to nail down the specifics.
This project still feels rather nebulous, and I hope we'll see something more substantial to nail down the specifics.