[DSC]

While I'm sad to see those trees go, the masses need transportation. This entrance isn't so large, couldn't some fairly mature trees be planted around the back perimeter and in 20 years problem solved?

I am one of the masses who need transportation and the problem here is that Metrolinx did not look seriously at other options and they and the government tried to hide what they were doing - e.g. the instructions not to deal with local MPPs. This is not an isolated incident and they tend to do exactly what they want all over the place. (And then manage their projects so poorly, like Eglinton, that neighbours are incredibly inconvenienced for FAR too long.

 

[officedweller]

More cool diagrams from the factum.
It also shows each alternative with a note why it would not work.
...and one of the diagrams just showed double fire doors (not turnstiles) in the passage between the ticketing halls of Line 1 Osgoode and OL Osgoode.

 

[11th]

While I'm sad to see those trees go, the masses need transportation. This entrance isn't so large, couldn't some fairly mature trees be planted around the back perimeter and in 20 years problem solved?

At the end it wasn't really about the trees. Trees were the pawns. The whole thing snowballed to include dissatisfaction about the station design, Metrolinx' lack of transparency, and the government in general. Some are new, some have existed before this fiasco.
They are valid reasons, but it's up for debate whether all of them are relevant when making the decision.

 

[Northern Light]

At the end it wasn't really about the trees. Trees were the pawns. The whole thing snowballed to include dissatisfaction about the station design, Metrolinx' lack of transparency, and the government in general. Some are new, some have existed before this fiasco.
They are valid reasons, but it's up for debate whether all of them are relevant when making the decision.

No one in the forestry community, so far as I am aware, is particularly phased about the trees; I mean sure, if we could save the hundred year old Ash tree, that would be great, but this is no one's hill to die on........

What virtually everyone agrees on is that Mx is dishonest and secretive, consistently. That in so doing, there has been a lack of public input, fairly considered, into this station design (and many other aspects of the O/L project and other Mx managed projects.)

That few would disagree that there are material shortcomings in this design, both from the perspective of a transit rider (completely ignoring the public realm concerns); but also from the perspective of public realm concerns.

What to do about all of that is another question entirely, but one that needs to start with some honesty and fair, public discussion of the options, and their benefits (and costs), in both time and money.

 

[Ward8]

I still don't understand why the head house can't be in the 14 meter area between the property line and the university line with the escalators descending east on an angle into the keyhole shaft. It would improve the public realm as well as the, quite poor, connectivity between Line 1 and the OL. It looks like there excavating and building underground infrastructure there anyway...

It would also be wise to cut and cover a short pedestrian tunnel from the simcoe entrance to the Line 1 entrance. Wayfinding is going to be a nightmare in the current layout, with out of towners and less frequent transit users descending 8 escalators to the wrong platform. If you have to put a sign that says "Osgoode station, but wrong door for Line 1" the design is suboptimal.

 

[Northern Light]

I still don't understand why the head house can't be in the 14 meter area between the property line and the university line with the escalators descending east on an angle into the keyhole shaft. It would improve the public realm as well as the, quite poor, connectivity between Line 1 and the OL. It looks like there excavating and building underground infrastructure there anyway...

It would also be wise to cut and cover a short pedestrian tunnel from the simcoe entrance to the Line 1 entrance. Wayfinding is going to be a nightmare in the current layout, with out of towners and less frequent transit users descending 8 escalators to the wrong platform. If you have to put a sign that says "Osgoode station, but wrong door for Line 1" the design is suboptimal.

It can be.............

Read here:

Ontario Line | ?m | ?s

When Line 5 western leg tunnels was being bored, the western TBM’s (Humber & Dennis) had to be extracted just west of Cedarvale Station. They were then reinserted east of Cedarvale Station. They then continued boring until just west of Eglinton Station. The eastern leg tunnels were bored by Lea...

urbantoronto.ca

3 posts close together.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

This is probably the only site in the entire city that would be easily recognizable to people who walked these streets over 150 years ago. And some of those very trees getting chopped have been there all along, through the generations.

Osgoode Hall in 1868. Source: http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/explore/online/osgoode/execution.aspx

 

[T3G]

What I would like to know is for what possible reason is it necessary to have the TBM extraction done on the Osgoode Hall grounds. Is there something about the land make up east of Osgoode that we don’t know about? Can you imagine if someone proposed extracting a TBM out of the ground in Piccadilly Circus? In Times Square or under the Arc de Triomphe? But apparently there was no other way at all to go about it in this case?

This sets a very bad precedent that going forward this shady, dishonest, and incompetent organization will be allowed to do whatever they like in the pursuit of delivering their mediocre transit projects. This is a far bigger loss than any material damages they may do to the public realm.

 

[Northern Light]

This is probably the only site in the entire city that would be easily recognizable to people who walked these streets over 150 years ago. And some of those very trees getting chopped have been there all along, through the generations.

View attachment 455514

Osgoode Hall in 1868. Source: http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/explore/online/osgoode/execution.aspx

While I have a great sympathy for trees, and might favour sparing the 100-year old Ash tree present on site, if only because I believe there really is a better way to design this station for riders and for the broader public...........

None of the trees present today date from 1868, just saying.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

I am one of the masses who need transportation and the problem here is that Metrolinx did not look seriously at other options and they and the government tried to hide what they were doing - e.g. the instructions not to deal with local MPPs. This is not an isolated incident and they tend to do exactly what they want all over the place. (And then manage their projects so poorly, like Eglinton, that neighbours are incredibly inconvenienced for FAR too long.

I mean folks fall into this all or nothing paradigm without considering that's really a false dichotomy. As this was never about trees or a relief line instead...rather the relief line will go on even if the trees where never a factor. Metrolinx chose this path because they wanted to, not because they needed to.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

While I have a great sympathy for trees, and might favour sparing the 100-year old Ash tree present on site, if only because I believe there really is a better way to design this station for riders and for the broader public...........

None of the trees present today date from 1868, just saying.

Not what I've read, but you would probably know better. But using the landscaped area at all is a problem, regardless.

 

[Northern Light]

Not what I've read, but you would probably know better. But using the landscaped area at all is a problem, regardless.

I too would prefer to see an alternative.

Though, important to say there really is only one alternative that moves the work entirely off the Osgoode site.

That is cut-and-cover on Queen Street, closing and excavating the road.

While the head house (entrance) can be shifted to the University ROW, there is insufficient room to extract the TBM (without worrying about damaging the existing station building).

This would not be an issue on the Queen Street side.

I think the case for opening Queen up is fairly good; though, as with everything about this discussion, we need to see all the facts on costs on time implications and on benefits, so we can all fairly weigh these.

****

As a side note, if Mx doesn't have all the trees levelled by Monday, I'll try to get down there and have a good look for myself (w/camera, if possible, fencing permitting)

 

[A Torontonian Now]

****

As a side note, if Mx doesn't have all the trees levelled by Monday, I'll try to get down there and have a good look for myself (w/camera, if possible, fencing permitting)

I expect nearby residents will be hearing chainsaws at 12:01 tonight (7am tomorrow at the latest).

 

[11th]

I still don't understand why the head house can't be in the 14 meter area between the property line and the university line with the escalators descending east on an angle into the keyhole shaft. It would improve the public realm as well as the, quite poor, connectivity between Line 1 and the OL. It looks like there excavating and building underground infrastructure there anyway...

It would also be wise to cut and cover a short pedestrian tunnel from the simcoe entrance to the Line 1 entrance. Wayfinding is going to be a nightmare in the current layout, with out of towners and less frequent transit users descending 8 escalators to the wrong platform. If you have to put a sign that says "Osgoode station, but wrong door for Line 1" the design is suboptimal.

It will not improve the Line 1-OL connection. There aren't a lot of options to connect two intersecting centre platforms.

 

[Northern Light]

It will not improve the Line 1-OL connection. There aren't a lot of options to connect two intersecting centre platforms.

A connection from Simcoe to the existing Line 1 Concourse is feasible, to my understanding.

***

Making a more direct platform to platform connection (likely via an interceding concourse) is much more complex and expensive as the existing station would need to be underpinned, something Mx was expressly avoiding having to do.