cereal said:
... Just 500m/9min walk north of ontario place is basically going to be a transit superhub... The only barrier is that 8-10min walk south to Ontario Place...
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
... Those open air trains also makes zero sense as a transit option for the site when it's in a city that is winter 1/3 of the time...
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I haven't found the walk across Exhibition Place to the amphitheatre (Budweiser Stage) to be a problem, but it might be on some dark Tuesday evening in January with freezing rain and high winds, and those fairground open tram type of things certainly wouldn't be useful. And through the CNE ( + IndyCar weekend, maybe other big events) people need a way to get to Ontario Place from the GO station, other than the longer walk all the way around the Princes' Gates.
 
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The simple solution to pretty much all of the problems associated with OP is right in front of everyone's eyes: build the spa on the northern surface parking lots and arrange the new science centre (with eventual/fantasy planetarium) within the confines of the Therme site on Westeros. Save as many trees as possible, or stick a dome over them and call it a gallery in the SC itself. There would even be enough room left over for a proper and long overdue natural history museum. I think everybody wins in this scenario.
 
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mjl08 said:
Doug just can't help himself. Always meddling in Toronto, and always during an election.

Mayor was always the goal. Premier is the back-up plan.
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Doug is motivated by three things: Benefitting his friends/benefactors, benefitting himself (through benefitting the friends), and benefitting Etobicoke.

This whole thing reeks of the back of his napkin. Developer friends get new land at Don Mills and Eglinton, Therme gets a free parking lot, Kinga gets a project on the Waterfront. The Science Centre is moved closer to Etobicoke and voila, a new destination is created on his side of town at Ontario Place. His comment about how he "loved taking the sail boat to Ontario Place like everyone else" (big LOL) was so telling.

I've said it before, but mark my words, we can expect to see an announcement in the next 3 years that the Ontario Line is being expanded west into Etobicoke. As long as he is Premier, it's all about them. The burying and expediting of the Eglinton West extension was just the start.
 
torontologist said:
This whole thing reeks of the back of his napkin.
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Well, obviously. The fact that it took the space of, what, a week or so? Less? To go from "Say, that sounds like a great idea!" to his whipping out his Trump sharpie and declaring it "Done!", without the slightest bit of deeper study and reflection says a *lot* about how he operates. (Though I wouldn't be surprised if there was some nefarious longer-term plot, perhaps w/an assist from Nick Kouvalis w/Ana Bailao as his chosen outlet)
 
There's a lot to like in the renders. It would be nice if the Therme Spa and the new Budweiser Stage had a smaller footprint, but I do like a lot of what they're doing with the remaining spaces. I would have preferred that they did away with the surface parking altogether, but at least they've significantly reduced it and it looks like they'll be improving the landscape surrounding it. I'm not sure I agree with moving the Science Centre to Ontario Place, just from a cost perspective. But I'm going to suppose they couldn't find private investors who were willing to reprogram the cinesphere and the pods in their current form. I hope the plans for the Science Centre aren't accounted for in the current renders because as currently laid out, it doesn't make much sense.
 
SubHuman said:
I haven't found the walk across Exhibition Place to the amphitheatre (Budweiser Stage) to be a problem, but it might be on some dark Tuesday evening in January with freezing rain and high winds, and those fairground open tram type of things certainly wouldn't be useful. And through the CNE ( + IndyCar weekend, maybe other big events) people need a way to get to Ontario Place from the GO station, other than the longer walk all the way around the Princes' Gates.
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I personally never understood the placement for the new subway station. No point for me to harp on it now since its done, but I will anyway (just a little). There isn't a need for connecting transit lines to be physically connected and I felt a more ideal location as far as connectivity to Ontario Place and CNE venues would have been along Princess Blvd between BMO Field and the Enercare Centre.
 
Trying to contain my raw emotions that's wants to scream "This whole thing is a terrible idea!" here...

...er, some of the renders at least look okay though.
 
I've seen rumors that the existing science centre buildings are in terrible shape according to their financial records (admittedly I don't understand how to read that information). As I understand, the province leases the building to the science centre, and I wonder if this has play in he decision making... Perhaps the Ontario Place location would be easier to remediate? Just not sure why they wouldn't come out and say. The closure of the bridge may be permanent?
 
I did not see the monorail and Ferris wheel in this set of plans.... other than that, this is a Ford kind of proposal. Flashy, a bit trashy.

I don't think this can be stopped. My objections are mostly ethical, and I for one will be forever mad at Ford if it becomes a piece of trash.

I will say having Science Centre type of activities at Ontario Place can work and can be a really good reuse for the pods. The Cinesphere is better than the OSC IMAX. Using the dome had that weird distortion. Also, the Cinesphere can play both analog and digital/laser Imax.

The Bud Stage has terrible acoustics (it can be really harsh on the ears) but a pleasant outdoor atmosphere. I won't miss it. People like coming to the concerts so I think the new stage will be popular. Now, of course, it is Live Nation/Ticketmaster, whom I truly feel are evil.

The Therme proposal is the hard part to swallow. I do like the new large public beach. For what, a couple of months per year though? God knows, the O Place management and Ont govt completely mismanaged the old Kid's village and water play area. So I would hope Therme can do better. The suggested prices are going to be expensive for a lot of families.

The adventure play area should be popular. People like the Montreal setup.

All in all, it is a decent stab at restoring Ontario Place to relevance as a tourist attraction. I took my kids to the old O Place for many of these activities, play/ water park, and kayaking.

I hold the same objections that most do: public space turned over to private interests, little 'Ontario' content, no public involvement, dubious planning, overly commercial and so on. We can't compare 70s ethics with 2020's ethics. I do not favour turning the space into passive parkland, though either. The location is good for downtown families to use occasionally for an activity day, as opposed to going out to facilities in the burbs. Making it usable for more months is possibly good economic sense, although the climate can be brutal in winter.

I really think the current OSC facility has potential as an environmental/nature museum, being located in a ravine, and all. I never felt like that was part of its purpose, which was being a cheerleader for science. Of course, the Fordites are allergic to environmental causes.
 
I just find it odd that for a plan to see OSC move by 2025 that there is so little tangible details for how OP will accommodate it. Moving a museum isn't a 2 year arrangement. This suggests to me that the whole thing is about getting OSC to move away from the Don Mills site and less about moving it properly.

AoD
 
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Bayer said:
Doug Ford’s plan to move the Ontario Science Centre to Ontario Place ruins them both - @AlexBozikovic in the Globe. "The right thing to do with the Ontario Science Centre is clear: Keep it open and restore it. The right thing to do with Ontario Place is also clear: Make both islands into destination parks, count on the new subway to bring visitors, and keep the entire site public."
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I'm perplexed why anyone would think this is a good idea, at least in regards to Ontario Place. Destination parks would not be year round attractions; It's not even a large space relatively speaking to do so. Moreover, all the talk of keeping it "public", last I checked you had to pay to go Ontario Place all those years back, so what's the definition here ? If you want to argue something like Navy Pier which has more year round elements I can see that, but that's much more commercial.

I think moving the science center is a great idea - even though ironically, at least initially it may be less accessible. My other concern is the size, would this amount to a 50% smaller science center, if so I think that's very short cited, I'm actually afraid this is like the case.
 
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