It is not a short period of time but I'm not as shocked by it as others. It's a huge facility and obviously it was going to be long-term.
There wouldn't be less outrage if it was 50 years or 75 and there's no way you make that investment if it's only 25.

If you want Therme there, the longer term makes sense. If you hate the whole idea, the length of the lease hardly matters, unless there's a few souls out there who hate the massive spa but imagined it might only be there for 10 or 15 years before the land reverts to public use.
 
Hmmm, the Canada Square leases start expiring in 2046; first building went up in '63??

11 Bay's City lease expires in 2030, how long was that?

@ProjectEnd would know.
 
This is pretty on-point for "the building won't even last that long" criticisms of the lease.

1682347458431.png
 
The takeaway is that he government is trying to lock this deal in so nobody can do anything about it, or least not without severe consequences. And in doing so making this deal as unaccountable to the people as possible as far as I am concerned here. /bleh
 
Now the TRCA is throwing their hats in the ring, pointing out that the site is basically all owned by the City and/or TRCA, much of it is in the regulatory limit and, shockingly, they weren't consulted at all on the Province's plans.

trca.ca

TRCA Responds to Ontario Science Centre Announcement

TRCA owns portions of the Ontario Science Centre lands. We have reached out to the Province for clarification on their proposed plans for the Centre.
trca.ca trca.ca

1682355554906.png


This is really going to be quite the gong show before it's all said and done.
 
adma said:
E and W island...basically, not much more than the restaurant kiosks and the parkland and the Forum; so yes, you could eat, you could lounge, you could paddleboat around the pods and you could see music acts. OP in 1971was really still a "work in progress": the central part came first, resolution of the E and W extremities came later. (Even such things as Echo Beach and, yes, posthumously, Trillium Park might be seen as a consequence of the original long-term visioning.)

And I'm really not sure *how* much in the way of "educational exhibits" got off the ground--it almost seems like the furthest they got in that direction was with the Ontario North Now pavilion in 1980, and that was a white elephant that quickly became a ride attraction instead. (Provincial-government-sponsored fair-display boosterism was no match for 80s cynicism. Though a little-noted detail is how the multi-siloed form of Ontario North Now echoed that of the *former* Ontario Gov't Building on the Ex grounds across the way--almost as if to send out a message in vain: "maybe we should have stayed there".)

The pods, again, were mostly sealed enigmas atop the skywalks where, once in a blue moon, there might be *something* going on; but they seemed most of the time to project an "administrative space" vibe instead. The *real* heart of it all, destination-attraction-wise, was Cinesphere--and that first season, people really just couldn't get enough of "North Of Superior" (and perhaps justifiably so--after all, it *did* launch the IMAX empire)***. But otherwise, it's almost like Ontario Place in the beginning served more as a proto-Doors Open attraction; so if visitors were sort of "organically" immersed in its architectonics as the main raison d'etre, there you go...

***(which leaves me thinking of how that earlier opus of innovative/dazzling provincial cinematic boosterism, Expo 67's "A Place To Stand"--which did become a recurring attraction in the last days of the Ontario Government Building--didn't figure in early OP programming, perhaps because it was already at that "awkward age" and superseded by Cinesphere's offerings. Yet it's the kind of thing that might have more authentic "Retrontario" appeal today, were there a way to reprogram/revitalize OP with *that* retro-Robartsian spirit in mind)
Click to expand...
People have to remember the context of the times. In the 1970s and even into the '80s, tech was far from ubiquitous so any manner of it was quite compelling. I remember seeing North of Superior for the first time (of many since I worked there in the early '80s) and almost experienced vertigo, then getting into the projection room and being completely blown away. Maybe that's the 'lack of cynicism' thing. Most homes didn't have a/c back then so maybe a bit of distraction, a short movie, snack and wandering in the breeze and shade of the open spaces was enough.

I recall even back into the '60s when we went to the Ex fairly regularly, I always looked forward to the 'water cycle' exhibit (Ontario Hydro?) and the cut-away underground mine display, even though they were exactly the same every year (well, that and the array of food samples a kid could scarf down in the Food Building).
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Now the TRCA is throwing their hats in the ring, pointing out that the site is basically all owned by the City and/or TRCA, much of it is in the regulatory limit and, shockingly, they weren't consulted at all on the Province's plans.

trca.ca

TRCA Responds to Ontario Science Centre Announcement

TRCA owns portions of the Ontario Science Centre lands. We have reached out to the Province for clarification on their proposed plans for the Centre.
trca.ca trca.ca

View attachment 471743

This is really going to be quite the gong show before it's all said and done.
Click to expand...
The TRCA and other CAs have already had a lot of their powers gutted and it wouldn't take much to remove the rest.

It would be interesting to know what kind of backstopping to government has offered to Therme. No commercial enterprise in their right mind will enter into a lease of that length without some type of guarantee of continued profitability or some kind of buy-back provision.
 
lenaitch said:
It would be interesting to know what kind of backstopping to government has offered to Therme. No commercial enterprise in their right mind will enter into a lease of that length without some type of guarantee of continued profitability or some kind of buy-back provision.
Click to expand...

We probably won't know the full cost to the taxpayers of this province for a very long time.
 
lenaitch said:
People have to remember the context of the times. In the 1970s and even into the '80s, tech was far from ubiquitous so any manner of it was quite compelling. I remember seeing North of Superior for the first time (of many since I worked there in the early '80s) and almost experienced vertigo, then getting into the projection room and being completely blown away. Maybe that's the 'lack of cynicism' thing. Most homes didn't have a/c back then so maybe a bit of distraction, a short movie, snack and wandering in the breeze and shade of the open spaces was enough.

I recall even back into the '60s when we went to the Ex fairly regularly, I always looked forward to the 'water cycle' exhibit (Ontario Hydro?) and the cut-away underground mine display, even though they were exactly the same every year (well, that and the array of food samples a kid could scarf down in the Food Building).
Click to expand...
Said recollections also reflect my point about how it was an era where "young spectatorship" fell into more of a default and there was a relative lack of fare that was hyper-kid-focussed a la Nintendo Power Pod-type stuff. That is, what you witnessed was by and large "all-ages" even if and when "kid-friendly"---and few objected, largely because few knew well enough to object (and not in a *bad* way, mind you).

Conversely, it was an era of greater unsupervised "free-range" childhood, so the big wide grown-up-focussed world out there as a macro-playspace in lieu of a contained kiddie environment was taken for granted. (Even the big tent of the original Children's Village felt more "open-bordered" than what came subsequently.)
 
lenaitch said:
The TRCA and other CAs have already had a lot of their powers gutted and it wouldn't take much to remove the rest.
Click to expand...

Yes, this occurred to me. That said, there really isn't any way they're building housing on the slope or down the valley. The question is whether they are willing to go nuclear and expropriate land from the City and TRCA in what would be a pretty ugly and public abuse of power. (The answer may be yes!)

lenaitch said:
It would be interesting to know what kind of backstopping to government has offered to Therme. No commercial enterprise in their right mind will enter into a lease of that length without some type of guarantee of continued profitability or some kind of buy-back provision.
Click to expand...

No doubt. And no doubt we'll never know. Not for a long time, if ever. But it may also be that the deal isn't even fully excuted until certain things have transpired. Either way, it's hard to imagine it's contingent on the Science Centre move, at least in any direct way.
 
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