[turini2]

- Even though they consider a 50 year timeframe, seems like they refuse to consider that the Ontario Line will be complete LMAO Assuming that construction until 2031 will harm visitors
- Seems like they assume 500 million inflation adjusted cost is needed for an renovation of both the buildings and exhibits over the next 20 years
- Estimates are about a 3 year full closure of the current OSC to clear out asbestos
View attachment 523689
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Maybe we need a "future of the Ontario Science Centre" site thread... because the parking lots would be perfect for housing, and the building itself could be a magnificent anchor of a post secondary institution, or a cultural facility. The idea of two "science centres" in the same city is not financially viable, I suspect.

 

[adma]

It's a water park. Is wonderland for crass women?

I'm referring to spas, not water parks. And I'm referring to *why* Doug Ford could plausibly be "the type of guy in the least bit interested in spas" (that is, in response to Doppleganger's quizzicality)--he uses the K's as a benchmark.

Basically, it's about spas appealing to those who are...

Basic (slang) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Will there be more posts discussing the crassness of women and no substantive comment about the water park?

It's not about the crassness of women. It's about the crassness of *Doug Ford's* women.

By that measure, you might as well label my digs at Great Wolf Lodge as being more generically about the crassness of children.

 

[generalcanada]

Maybe we need a "future of the Ontario Science Centre" site thread... because the parking lots would be perfect for housing, and the building itself could be a magnificent anchor of a post secondary institution, or a cultural facility. The idea of two "science centres" in the same city is not financially viable, I suspect.

It all depends on what exhibits are at the 2 locations. like If one is really old and un-modernized and the other is flashy and new obviously the old one will get much less attendance

 

[picard102]

I'm referring to spas, not water parks.

Well this is a water park.

 

[Doppleganger]

The hard reality is that all museums(I place OSC in this category) will eventually require costly upgrades and renovations from time to time. The British Museum's 'Rosetta Project' is estimated to cost 1 billion pounds, Berlin's 'Pergamon Museum has closed for 14 years for an extensive reno that is estimated to cost 1.2 billion euros, and even Paris's Pompidou Centre is set to close for five years for renos that will cost around 260 million euros. Though the OSC is the purview of the province, I'm not sure what the answer is to Toronto's financial and infrastructure woes. Parks are being neglected, major roads are cracking, pockmarked, and crumbling. Yonge St. is not only an embarrassment but a very real hazard to cyclists and we still have an unfunded Queens Quay East LRT to build in the near future. Though I almost choke to suggest it, perhaps one option for the OSC might be a PPP, or at the very least, naming rights for a corporate donor(I really, really hate this one...just the thought of 'Rogers Science Centre' in bright crimson signage makes me want to throw up in my mouth). My preference is for the OSC to remain at its present site, somehow find the money, close it while the renovations are being done, and when it finally reopens, it will have two shiny new transit lines ready to bring in throngs of paying visitors. Ontario Place, though in a more central and prominent location, will still require costly modifications and the Ontario Line's Exhibition Station will provide less than ideal connectivity. Lastly, there is also the least ideal option, which is to do nothing. When it was announced that the ageing, seismically inadequate Royal B.C. Museum would have to be completely rebuilt at a cost of $800 million, it raised such a public outcry that it was immediately cancelled by the NDP government. Sometimes politicians have to go against the grain of public opinion, be able to see beyond the next election cycle and do what is right for the greater good.

 

[Mount Dennis Resident]

The reconstruction of Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris will expected to be fully covered by the €850 million in donations received from 340,000 individuals spanning 150 different countries. Seems they'll keep it in the same place from before the fire in 2019. Expected completion is by the end of 2024.

 

[Doppleganger]

The reconstruction of Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris will expected to be fully covered by the €850 million in donations received from 340,000 individuals spanning 150 different countries. Seems they'll keep it in the same place from before the fire in 2019. Expected completion is by the end of 2024.

Yeah, but that's just Notre Dame

 

[adma]

Well this is a water park.

To re-quote the Doppleganger quote I originally quoted: "From a cursory glance at Mr. Ford, one might be forgiven for concluding that he wasn't the type of guy in the least bit interested in spas, be it patronizing or promoting them, but clearly, he is."

Whether it's *presently* a water park or not is irrelevant to the point of that original quote--unless you're somehow implying that "spa" = "water park". Which it isn't--though it's not like they can't coexist...

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Maybe we need a "future of the Ontario Science Centre" site thread... because the parking lots would be perfect for housing, and the building itself could be a magnificent anchor of a post secondary institution, or a cultural facility. The idea of two "science centres" in the same city is not financially viable, I suspect.

Here's one of them

770 Don Mills | 153.7m | 48s | CreateTO | Montgomery Sisam

http://app.toronto.ca/DevelopmentApplications/associatedApplicationsList.do?action=init&folderRsn=4339762&isCofASearch=false&isTlabSearch=false 770 DON MILLS RD Ward 26 - North York District Construct a multi-building mixed use development at the southwest and southeast corners of Don Mills...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

To re-quote the Doppleganger quote I originally quoted: "From a cursory glance at Mr. Ford, one might be forgiven for concluding that he wasn't the type of guy in the least bit interested in spas, be it patronizing or promoting them, but clearly, he is."

Whether it's *presently* a water park or not is irrelevant to the point of that original quote--unless you're somehow implying that "spa" = "water park". Which it isn't--though it's not like they can't coexist...

I'm not sure there's any point in defending yourself to this person no matter how well you try to respond to it. You know what you said. He can think what he wants to think. We move on...

...and leading by example by placing one on /ignore if need be. I know I did.

 

[picard102]

Whether it's *presently* a water park or not is irrelevant to the point of that original quote--unless you're somehow implying that "spa" = "water park". Which it isn't--though it's not like they can't coexist...

I'm not talking about presently, Therme will be a water park with some spa services, and a greenhouse. It will have a wave pool and water slides. Something I can easily see someone like Ford being interested in.

 

[Doppleganger]

I'm not sure there's any point in defending yourself to this person no matter how well you try to respond to it. You know what you said. He can think what he wants to think. We move on...

...and leading by example by placing one on /ignore if need be. I know I did.

If I'm that 'person' you're referring to, then let me be clear...when I suggested Mr. Ford was 'clearly' interested in spas in a previous comment, I was using sarcasm. Why it seems to have taken on a life of its own is beyond me. Perhaps I should have prefaced my comment with a warning quote from the late, great Brittany Murphy..."I do sarcasm really poorly"!

 

[Northern Light]

UT's own @AlexBozikovic has a good column out looking at the business case released by the province for the relocation of the OSC, in which, he more or less eviscerates same.

Doug Ford’s business case for the Science Centre move is all spin

The Ontario government’s claim the centre is ‘near its end of life’ and should close is bunk. Relocating it to Toronto’s waterfront is a political move and nothing else

www.theglobeandmail.com

To me, this column is important irrespective of one's general take on the idea of the relocation and whether or not one finds the current OSC building appealing; because it simply makes clear the business case as put forward is, at best, misleading.

Simply put, it may be possible/desirable to relocate the OSC; but it probably is not, if done the way currently proposed; and it likely will not happen at the currently proposed cost/savings.

From his column, a few highlights; after which I would encourage those interested to follow the link:

In respect of the cost of the re-lo being misleading:

****

****

****

I think Alex's piece rightly asks, in effect:

This will cost more than proposed; how much more?

If the OSC complex is saved, in whole or in part, who pays?

****

I'm personally open to the idea that shifting the OSC may be the right call; but if so, that must be based on a fair and reasonable business case/strategy, not a a torqued one.

If retaining the OSC complex for re-use is seriously on the table, that too must be costed, and an entity found w/the willingness and means to pay that bill.

 

[Doppleganger]

UT's own @AlexBozikovic has a good column out looking at the business case released by the province for the relocation of the OSC, in which, he more or less eviscerates same.

Doug Ford’s business case for the Science Centre move is all spin

The Ontario government’s claim the centre is ‘near its end of life’ and should close is bunk. Relocating it to Toronto’s waterfront is a political move and nothing else

www.theglobeandmail.com

To me, this column is important irrespective of one's general take on the idea of the relocation and whether or not one finds the current OSC building appealing; because it simply makes clear the business case as put forward is, at best, misleading.

Simply put, it may be possible/desirable to relocate the OSC; but it probably is not, if done the way currently proposed; and it likely will not happen at the currently proposed cost/savings.

From his column, a few highlights; after which I would encourage those interested to follow the link:

In respect of the cost of the re-lo being misleading:

View attachment 523813

****

View attachment 523814

****

View attachment 523815

****

I think Alex's piece rightly asks, in effect:

This will cost more than proposed; how much more?

If the OSC complex is saved, in whole or in part, who pays?

****

I'm personally open to the idea that shifting the OSC may be the right call; but if so, that must be based on a fair and reasonable business case/strategy, not a a torqued one.

If retaining the OSC complex for re-use is seriously on the table, that too must be costed, and an entity found w/the willingness and means to pay that bill.

Let me see if I have this right.. the city just offloaded responsibility for maintaining the DVP and the Gardiner to the province and now there is a proposal afoot to pass management of the OSC(and presumably its financial liabilities) to city control? Rather than a 'shell game', I'd say it's more a case of "he who giveth, taketh".

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

If I'm that 'person' you're referring to, then let me be clear...when I suggested Mr. Ford was 'clearly' interested in spas in a previous comment, I was using sarcasm. Why it seems to have taken on a life of its own is beyond me. Perhaps I should have prefaced my comment with a warning quote from the late, great Brittany Murphy..."I do sarcasm really poorly"!

Er...you're not. So you're good!