Given the history of the Air Show at the Ex, I would love to see the Air & Space Museum find a new home down by the water. They could even move the old terminal from Billy Bishop when the sun finally sets on it at the island!
 
Tulse:

Such a move wouldn't gain the Tories enough votes in Toronto to offset the outrage in Niagara, Rama, and even Windsor.

I thought those places are already Cons or NDP?

Correction: No...at least not Niagara Falls - it's Liberal

AoD
 
Tulse:



I thought those places are already Cons or NDP?

AoD
I don't think it matters who is in power there, as the private interests who run or depend on the casinos in those parts will make noise, regardless of which party they support.
 
Is it me or is there something about the need for a casino that smacks of desperation? I understand the interest of smaller resort/tourist towns which often have very little else to offer, but I don't get what's in it for a large and dynamic place like Toronto. I mean, is a casino going to draw tourists away from other competing markets or is it simply about manipulating locals (from the city and the region) through addiciton so as to squeeze out more money into the government coffers?? It just seems unsavoury to me. I'm sure the building would be nice but is this the limit to our vision for the waterfront?
 
Casino's are not a small town only thing big city's do have them now does Toronto need one i am not sure but with the debt as big as it is a casino would help pay off the debt now i don't like the idea of sucking money from people via casino but i am not sure what else can be done to make a fair amount of money to pay off the debt.
 
i don't like the idea of sucking money from people via casino but i am not sure what else can be done to make a fair amount of money to pay off the debt.
Taxation? Spread across all citizens, and not just those so innumerate or desperate to think that casinos are a way to get cash?
 
Tulse:

Taxation might be a rationale for the revenue side of things, but gambling is more like a product for those who does it - if you don't sell it here, they'll just go elsewhere (or underground) for it. Besides, well executed casino/hotel complexes are more than just about gambling nowadays- there is the whole lifestyle experience/entertainment component to consider.

In any case, for me it's less about the revenues from the casino than the circulation it provides 24/7.

AoD
 
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They would have to up the taxes a fair bit just take the hst people complain now at the rate now with that tax along if they did put it up to 24% you would have even more outrage and that's just for sales tax the other thing is the more you up taxes as a rule people will not have as much to spend.
 
Factoring in the social problems that result from gambling addiction, along with the costs we can attribute to them, what would be the net revenue of a casino? Governments have no place trying to both regulate and run casinos. It's a conflict of interest, pure and simple, just as with alcohol... oh wait a second, we're already 'ok' with that little conflict so what the heck, bring on the state-run gambling halls and hookers!
 
Tewder:

I suspect compulsive, problem gamblers will find a way to gamble regardless of whether there is a casino in Toronto or not - so either way, you are already paying for that social cost. Besides, do you trust the private sector to sell alcohol more responsibly - and the government having to negotiate with the private sector when they make changes to regulations? Just saying.

AoD
 
Factoring in the social problems that result from gambling addiction, along with the costs we can attribute to them, what would be the net revenue of a casino? Governments have no place trying to both regulate and run casinos. It's a conflict of interest, pure and simple, just as with alcohol... oh wait a second, we're already 'ok' with that little conflict so what the heck, bring on the state-run gambling halls and hookers!

While i agree with what your saying the issue is our debt is a concern the other thing is people want every social program they want cheap college cheap day care etc but so the gov is going to have to find the money some where be it a casino or another big money maker.
 
^ I think it has less to do with votes and much more to do with generating another huge cash flow for the government.

Of course the other casinos won’t like it but really , so what? Canadian Tire didn't like it when home depot came to town - but they survived, in fact quite well.
 
^ I think it has less to do with votes and much more to do with generating another huge cash flow for the government.

Of course the other casinos won’t like it but really , so what?

But if a Toronto casino just moves existing customers from the other casinos, it won't be "generating another huge cash flow", but just redirecting where that cash flow occurs.
 
Tewder:

I suspect compulsive, problem gamblers will find a way to gamble regardless of whether there is a casino in Toronto or not - so either way, you are already paying for that social cost. Besides, do you trust the private sector to sell alcohol more responsibly - and the government having to negotiate with the private sector when they make changes to regulations? Just saying.

AoD

We should leave the purveying of these things to the private sector, and the regulating of these things to our governments. It is a conflict of interest for our government to profit from the same thing it 'claims' to regulate, surely? The government will still get its taxes.

... and I know that people can gamble their money almost anywhere these days but I'd still rather leave it at the Falls than have it in the heart of Toronto. I freely admit that there are holes in my position but there it is anyway.
 
Ontario Place and a "Can-Do" Attitude

This may be controversial and almost certainly won't happen (I'm betting on the whole works being town down, one area becoming a casino and the rest of it becoming condos), but perhaps we need to aim sky-high for this. Dreams tend to get people into the spirit of actually doing things that aren't easy and expedient. We all know from the fact that Toronto has built one measly subway line since the 1970s that this city has been for a long time jammed in a malaise (and just FYI, Ford is a major symptom of this - where did that 'gravy train' go, guys?) that doesn't get a damn thing done with regards to projects. Harborfront is going places (a decade too late and still much too slowly), but Toronto's @#$% of a bid for the 2015 Pan Ams is another symbol. Toronto needs to really get its head into actually building. Cities and people adapt to the environments which they have to deal with.

Now, as far as Ontario Place goes, this is what I am proposing:

1) The Cinesphere and the Pods stay. Period. They are very much examples of landmarks. The Cinesphere IMO should be a place used for TIFF, among other events.

2) Merge the CNE Grounds and Ontario Place into one entity. There is no reason for both being the way they are, especially since Ontario Place is empty a heckuva lot of the time.

3) Ontario Place should be designated as a showcase for everything "Toronto". First portion of this is the idea of having a major showcase of restaurants, music clubs and the like down there. IMO, this should go where the current west parking lot, opposite from the the Pods, with pathways up to the pods themselves, which will also be home to these restaurants. Modify the pods somewhat to have each one have an outdoor cafe or restaurant on the roof of them.

4) Move the Marina someplace else. It doesn't belong there IMO, and just take up space. Instead, a medium-sized aquarium goes there, with fairly low cost of admission, enough to help cover the expenses of it. I'm thinking this facility will be built over the water, as well as stretching out towards the West.

5) Rebuild the water park, keeping the best of current attractions and replacing the others. Keep and update the big splash pads for kids, also build a "lazy river" type of attraction, wave pool and a couple new water slides. Enclose the whole works in a glass roof and have it be heated, allowing it to used in the Winter. In the summer, open major pieces in the glass roof to allow the water park to the temperature to the exterior temperature.

6) The whole area under the pods becomes the largest outdoor pool in the world, complete with a real sand beach. This pool is separated from the waters of Lake Ontario. The pool stretches from 50 meters west of the edge of the park all the way under the pods to the Brigantine Cove area. This pool will be designed to be at most twenty feet deep and with the water moved regularly.

7) Doug Ford's proposed huge ferris wheel is built here, on the west edge of the island, with the log ride being underneath it. A west entrance to Ontario Place is built here as well. Next to this is a back-and-forth roller coaster (think The Bat at Canada's Wonderland). Other adult attractions are built here as well.

8) Casino Toronto goes inside the CNE Grounds. It should be a roughly 16-story casino and high-end hotel, next to the old Automotive building.

9) The second of two roller coasters here is a big steel one, similar in design to Vortex at Canada's Wonderland and carrying the name Flyer Evolution. (Or whatever variation of the Flyer name seems most appropriate.)

10) Toronto should aim to have greater new events in the city to go with the completely revamped facility. "Speed Weeks" in Toronto should start with the Indycar event at Ontario Place, with a round of the F1 Powerboat World Championship the week after that in the inner harbor and then the Canadian Air Racing Trophy on the third week. The sports teams of Toronto should also use the BMO Field and Rogers Center (whichever is appropriate) for appropriate big events - European football friendlies, big-time Rugby matches, et cetera. The Toronto Maple Leafs should IMO hold three games a year outdoors at the Rogers Center.

11) Build a dedicated mass transit line to Ontario Place, if it is possible separated from street level to reduce traffic congestion. The parking lots along Lakeshore have to go - the West one becomes the beach area for the huge pool, and the east one gets a five-story car park built in its place, to handle the number of cars that will be displaced from the much-reduced parking lots.

12) Plant lots of trees in the area. They may be small now, but even in ten years they will be a lot bigger.

13) Keep the Molson Amphitheatre and if possible expand the number of major concerts there if possible. Toronto's Film Festival could also use this place, too.

14) Keep the Cinesphere, but modify the area around it to make the Cinesphere be the centerpiece of a whole bunch of IMAX Theatres. I am thinking dismantling the Sphere and moving up the hill slightly, giving the room to build eight other IMAX Theates there in a structure around it, and the clothe the outside of the Cinesphere in glass and with lighting effects, making the sphere itself look like a miniature version of the Planet Earth.

15) If the Marina must be built, expand it out by Coronation Park.

16) the East end of the park is anchored by a new building for the Canadian Air and Space Museum, and if it is possible, get another warship to park in at the Museum. Heck, built the museum around a destroyer in the middle of it, suspended above the water.

This idea is crazily ambitious, but this is what Toronto should be aiming for. I'm sure a lot of people though Bill Davis was a bit nuts championing Ontario Place back in the 1960s and 1970s. But such things are what help Toronto as a city. We have a lot of advantages, but we do not any more have the greatest attractions for Tourists. We should be, especially in this day and age, looking to have great attractions and things to do in the city.

Let's aim high for a change.
 
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