generalcanada said:
the 2nd one is all over the place the entire 1st paragraph seems to argue for tearing down budweiser stage? then goes on to make the same points i made in the past to build on the parking lots at the EX ("but muh culture") LOL good luck with that
Click to expand...
Aside from everything, keep in mind that when it comes to the pro-Ontario Place Zeidlerphiles, the Bud Stage has *always* had a bad rep as a heavy-handed replacement for the Forum--"where the destruction started", IOW. And its defense has always carried a touch of "ur just jellus" by those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing....
 
T3G said:
This type of bluster is unworthy of this board.
Click to expand...
...to be fair, it was a conclusion of an extensive poll conducted by our esteemed member upon eligible voters in the GTA region. This person just hasn't posted the results of their findings here yet...so we can all wait with abated breath when they do, as I am confident that this assertion wasn't trolled out without evidence for the shite high fives. 😼
 
  • Haha
Reactions: T3G
Was at OP to watch the airshow. IMO the place is a disgraceful dump although the potential is there. I don't see the public money that will be required coming forward to rejuvenate the place. Practically private money will be required. We can continue to complain about that and get nothing done as has been the case for quite some time or get on with it. There is nothing that draws me there when I come to Toronto. Not even an airshow any longer that is mediocre at best. Bottom line is that it continues to rot or we make the best of what is offered.
 
...the problems with this false dichotomy is that there are probably better ways to fix it than what is being offered.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
...the problems with this false dichotomy is that there are probably better ways to fix it than what is being offered.
Click to expand...
There may very well be a better way but a line of thought that is might or what if doesn't seem to have traction. Hence the place just gets worse and worse. I fear there will always be detractors no matter what is offered and wheels will continue to spin until they come off. I think what I am seeing offered is realistic given economic reality. With someone willing to invest the money required at no cost to the beleaguered taxpayer with a result that rejuvenates the property is much better than what we have now. I realize there is a wide range of opinion on this. My take is that I want a reason to go there that is available in my lifetime and this seems to be the option that will make this happen.
 
dag said:
There may very well be a better way but a line of thought that is might or what if doesn't seem to have traction. Hence the place just gets worse and worse. I fear there will always be detractors no matter what is offered and wheels will continue to spin until they come off. I think what I am seeing offered is realistic given economic reality. With someone willing to invest the money required at no cost to the beleaguered taxpayer with a result that rejuvenates the property is much better than what we have now. I realize there is a wide range of opinion on this. My take is that I want a reason to go there that is available in my lifetime and this seems to be the option that will make this happen.
Click to expand...
predicted rebuttal to your comment "but parking garage therefore the entire plan is bad"
 
dag said:
With someone willing to invest the money required at no cost to the beleaguered taxpayer with a result that rejuvenates the property is much better than what we have now
Click to expand...
generalcanada said:
predicted rebuttal to your comment "but parking garage therefore the entire plan is bad"
Click to expand...

The cost to the tax payer is $400-500million parking garage and $150-200million in servicing infrastructure (utilities, water, sewer, etc...). If the Ontario government is so eager to pour over half a billion into Ontario Place lands to support a private business, then they could take a fraction of that same money and spend it on remediation and landscaping, restore the pods, and call it a day. There are alternative development options that make more sense from a financial standpoint. Don't pretend like the money isn't there for alternatives, when it obviously is. The Ontario government has made it very clear they are willing to spend enormous money to support this Therme Spa project, there is no reason why a portion of that money wouldn't be spent on alternatives for the land.
 
cereal said:
The cost to the tax payer is $400-500million parking garage and $150-200million in servicing infrastructure (utilities, water, sewer, etc...). If the Ontario government is so eager to pour over half a billion into Ontario Place lands to support a private business, then they could take a fraction of that same money and spend it on remediation and landscaping, restore the pods, and call it a day. There are alternative development options that make more sense from a financial standpoint. Don't pretend like the money isn't there for alternatives, when it obviously is. The Ontario government has made it very clear they are willing to spend enormous money to support this Therme Spa project, there is no reason why a portion of that money wouldn't be spent on alternatives for the land.
Click to expand...
All levels of gov't constantly provide taxpayer money to private corporations through 'tax breaks' or 'incentives'. I don't hear anyone complain about that. How is this different? There was radio silence when Trudeau shilled billions for Stellantis and VW. I guess it's fine when one party does this.
 
onetoronto said:
All levels of gov't constantly provide taxpayer money to private corporations through 'tax breaks' or 'incentives'. I don't hear anyone complain about that. How is this different? There was radio silence when Trudeau shilled billions for Stellantis and VW. I guess it's fine when one party does this.
Click to expand...

People complain about it all of the time, you just choose to ignore it. All political parties do this, and it's horrible, and there's probably not much difference between the conservatives and liberals in this matter.
 
dag said:
Was at OP to watch the airshow. IMO the place is a disgraceful dump although the potential is there. I don't see the public money that will be required coming forward to rejuvenate the place. Practically private money will be required. We can continue to complain about that and get nothing done as has been the case for quite some time or get on with it. There is nothing that draws me there when I come to Toronto. Not even an airshow any longer that is mediocre at best. Bottom line is that it continues to rot or we make the best of what is offered.
Click to expand...

Oh, we're back to the bottom-of-the-barrel "It's better than nothing!" comments. Grand.
Do you know what other proposals were submitted to the RFP? Of course you don't - because it's under wraps. You don't know if there were uses that were better. You don't know if there were financial deals that were better.

You're just making one obvious statement (it's not in good shape now because it's been left to rot) and then leaping to a completely illogical and immatterial conculsion (which, I think, is, "the airshow is also bad and this spa will at least be better than what's there now.)

onetoronto said:
All levels of gov't constantly provide taxpayer money to private corporations through 'tax breaks' or 'incentives'. I don't hear anyone complain about that. How is this different? There was radio silence when Trudeau shilled billions for Stellantis and VW. I guess it's fine when one party does this.
Click to expand...
Yeah, firstly this is not true but way to get to the "But whatabout Trudeau," part of the debate.
Secondly, Ford also shilled out billions for Stellantis and VW. It's the same deal.
Thirdly, there's a difference between tax incentives that encourage job creation and long-term economic benefits (which, to be clear, is not my defending the Stellantis deal) and the Ontario Place situation, which is "hiring" a private company to run a public asset for profit, effectively. (And combining this with a bait-and-switch-land-grab at the Science Centre etc. etc.)

Most people are not opposed to a private use on site - there are already 2 concert venues there, for example. Most people didn't object to the principle of an RFP asking potential users to bring forward a plan for revitaliizing the park, making it a year-round destination etc. etc.

I won't regurgitate, for the 50th time, all things people are upset about with this particular proposal but the rest of y'all "I just joined UT 2 weeks ago to say Ontario Place is great - but I'm definitely not astro-turfing" folks aren't dealing with any of the substnative concerns most people have voiced.
 
goreckm said:
People complain about it all of the time, you just choose to ignore it. All political parties do this, and it's horrible, and there's probably not much difference between the conservatives and liberals in this matter.
Click to expand...
It's the *both parties' neglect for OP is where we're at today here. I'm not gonna go into details on the why's, as I am not sure that's important now or even helpful...rather to concur this is pretty much on the money.

*Note: I am not sure where the NDP's brief tenure stood with OP back in the early 90's. But unless they did significant things to stave off OP's entropy, it could be argued they have their part in the blame for this as well.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top