[DSCToronto]

Has anyone ever called you a contrarian? LOL. Every post I make you seem to reply with a contrarian view...

As I said, it's unfunded, but they are still showing the pools as part of the plan on WT's site: https://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/our-projects/parliament-slip

Yes, I have been called a contrarian because I tend to prefer demonstrated facts rather than wishful thinking. I too would like to see the pools but (having been disappointed far too often) I tend not to believe renderings and that is all that is on the WT site. Of course, some renderings do result in the actual construction plans being similar but I am afraid that the pools @ Parliament Slip are likely to join the (also 'unfunded') bridges along the Waterfront Promenade or the wave deck @ Sherbourne Common.

 

[Diablo1983]

Yes, I have been called a contrarian because I tend to prefer demonstrated facts rather than wishful thinking. I too would like to see the pools but (having been disappointed far too often) I tend not to believe renderings and that is all that is on the WT site. Of course, some renderings do result in the actual construction plans being similar but I am afraid that the pools @ Parliament Slip are likely to join the (also 'unfunded') bridges along the Waterfront Promenade or the wave deck @ Sherbourne Common.

No one was presenting anything other than facts - no wishful thinking. In fact, I don't want more tourists down on this end of the waterfront, so I would prefer the pools not be installed. But, the plan - with the pools - has gone through issues identification (where the pool locations were moved and sizes changed) and is presented on the WT website as part of the current plan.

In fact, the 2026 budget for WT includes money to continue progressing the design....until it's officially killed, projecting based on "gut" is pointless on all of our parts.

 

[Northern Light]

In fairness, suggestions or things imposed during reviews and approvals CAN improve a project and at the end of the day the Planning Act does not give Cities the power to impose aesthetic standards if a proposal meets the various Codes. . The various Design Review Committees and public or planner input make generally useful suggestions and projects CAN improve during the review process. (Though there is then the dreaded cheapening to be dealt with :->)

You are, of course, correct.

But I do want to note that the City/WT have unique leverage in this case, which is that they own the land. They can therefore control design completely as a condition of sale or lease, rather through the Planning Act.

Whether or not they've done a good job with that............well..........

 

[Diablo1983]

You are, of course, correct.

But I do want to note that the City/WT have unique leverage in this case, which is that they own the land. They can therefore control design completely as a condition of sale or lease, rather through the Planning Act.

Whether or not they've done a good job with that............well..........

Exactly why I'm so disappointed - they basically rolled over for QILP.
No one thinking about what the market will be like 3-5 years from now...just focused on the now.

 

[xmyth_]

My thing about this area, is whether any long term thought has gone into any of it. All this business the last few years of- approve EVERYTHING AND DOUBLE SIZE IT in the name of housing crisis- and yeah, this area is getting population… but then what?

Yall screwed with section 37 funds (again in the name of housing crisis) and other fees that would fund stuff like the pool and community amenities. So now you have a huge population influx, and little to nothing where they live.

It’s like a recent visit to the Christmas market, where they had moved Santa to a more public area- causing a line to form and snake through the narrowest passage in the whole distillery, causing a bit of a fire hazard.

I’ve watched countless videos from Defunctland about how Disney meticulously plans for lines caused by attractions. Obviously the Distillery hasn’t.

But it seems planners also haven’t. Because they’ve rubber stamped all this overdevelopment without figuring out what Parliament Slip needs to be, and who will pay for it. So I think there’s healthy skepticism from those on UT forums who’ve seen value engineering and politicking going around.

More thought has gone into a 4hr Defunctland video than our waterfront it seems.

 

[Diablo1983]

My thing about this area, is whether any long term thought has gone into any of it. All this business the last few years of- approve EVERYTHING AND DOUBLE SIZE IT in the name of housing crisis- and yeah, this area is getting population… but then what?

Yall screwed with section 37 funds (again in the name of housing crisis) and other fees that would fund stuff like the pool and community amenities. So now you have a huge population influx, and little to nothing where they live.

It’s like a recent visit to the Christmas market, where they had moved Santa to a more public area- causing a line to form and snake through the narrowest passage in the whole distillery, causing a bit of a fire hazard.

I’ve watched countless videos from Defunctland about how Disney meticulously plans for lines caused by attractions. Obviously the Distillery hasn’t.

But it seems planners also haven’t. Because they’ve rubber stamped all this overdevelopment without figuring out what Parliament Slip needs to be, and who will pay for it. So I think there’s healthy skepticism from those on UT forums who’ve seen value engineering and politicking going around.

More thought has gone into a 4hr Defunctland video than our waterfront it seems.

not entirely wrong, but I think WT has done a good job of building livable neighbourhoods with parks, schools, and community centres.
I think where they missed the boat - but have done some things recently to right the wrong, like take most of the WELRT development into their fold - was on transit. The government approach of building AFTER the density is there has proven to be backwards thinking when you're trying to build livable communities.

As for the increase in size/height, WT and the city very much have their hands tied when developers know they can simply take things to the OLT to get what they want thanks to Doug. It's cheaper for organizations that run on tax payer dollars to roll over vs fight - especially when so often these developers apply for these one floor at a time. The developers have figured out how to game the system....

I'd also argue that NIMBYism is alive and well - in a growing city where a ton of land is not zoned, and won't be zoned without massive fights - for density that supports this growth. Moreover, Torontonians want to have their cake and eat it too. No one wants higher taxes but they want everything a large, world-class city should offer...those two don't compute. Even a modest tax increase would keep Toronto with one of the lowest property tax rates in the province, but there's no political will to say "if we want all of this, we all have to pay for it".

 

[xmyth_]

I wish 15min cities hadn’t become so friggin politicized because we seriously need to consider that. I’m not saying that Innisfil shouldn’t be allowed to come to the Christmas Market, but rather I want Innisfil to have enough going on where they’re at they don’t feel the need to make an hour long trek to do so.

With Parliament Slip, it really is going to be one of a kind - so hopefully it will be worth a trip for anyone to visit, along with the rest of the waterfront. But sorry, if you surround it with thousands of condos, then you have to consider daily use of residents.

Aqualuna is gorgeous and I’m glad they have the community center there as a public amenity on the ground floor. Can’t wait until we see businesses there to see what kind of street level activity we get (where’s the kayak rental going?).

But omg, I keep seeing the renders of Quayside and that round building beside the slip. And I pray some billionaire throws money into cultural institutions like that. Because we seriously need some third spaces for the thousands of residents being added nearby.

 

[xmyth_]

I desperately want a Wychwood Barns/Brickworks type set up beside the slip line in the style of the old Polson Iron works (incl sign). St Lawrence Market North may suffer from poor programming, but I’d extend Haborfront Arts into this space and run arts and crafts stuff, event rental. It would kill.

 

[xmyth_]

I’m just saying. This would kill on the east side of the slip. Think of it like a super Amsterdam brew house. I just don’t know who would fund to build this, or run it. But man, it could do Christmas markets, indoor craft fairs, Pow Wows, music events, wedding rental. Maybe set some creative incubator spaces. Have it as the basis for a field trip program that educates kids about the history of the waterfront and the nature in the Port land’s. I want it. We need it more than a condo with a dry cleaners and Pizza Hut on the ground floor.

 

[Parkdalian]

From the Waterfront Toronto link.

Cool timelapse video of the work from January 2024 to March 2025. As shot from the roof of the Aqua___ building.

This kind of video reminds me of the building block stop motion shorts from Sesame Street that I used to love so much.

 

[JasonParis]

I’m just saying. This would kill on the east side of the slip. Think of it like a super Amsterdam brew house. I just don’t know who would fund to build this, or run it. But man, it could do Christmas markets, indoor craft fairs, Pow Wows, music events, wedding rental. Maybe set some creative incubator spaces. Have it as the basis for a field trip program that educates kids about the history of the waterfront and the nature in the Port land’s. I want it. We need it more than a condo with a dry cleaners and Pizza Hut on the ground floor. View attachment 704620

Could be built using parts of Union Station's Bush Train Shed too! #WinWin

 

[Diablo1983]

I’m just saying. This would kill on the east side of the slip. Think of it like a super Amsterdam brew house. I just don’t know who would fund to build this, or run it. But man, it could do Christmas markets, indoor craft fairs, Pow Wows, music events, wedding rental. Maybe set some creative incubator spaces. Have it as the basis for a field trip program that educates kids about the history of the waterfront and the nature in the Port land’s. I want it. We need it more than a condo with a dry cleaners and Pizza Hut on the ground floor. View attachment 704620

I think something like this is in the works in the Mccleary district as an adaptive reuse of the old power plant.

Also, what'chu got against Pizza Hut?

 

[xmyth_]

I think something like this is in the works in the Mccleary district as an adaptive reuse of the old power plant.

Also, what'chu got against Pizza Hut?

Funnily enough I wrote that and was like- actually, I could use some pizza hutt…

I just mean, we need some indoor third spaces around here. And as much as some retail and affordable food options would be great, a library, museum, hall, food hall, mini mall with food court, aaaanything would be good. Cant just be 1. People living here and 2. Thing tourists visit

 

[Diablo1983]

Funnily enough I wrote that and was like- actually, I could use some pizza hutt…

I just mean, we need some indoor third spaces around here. And as much as some retail and affordable food options would be great, a library, museum, hall, food hall, mini mall with food court, aaaanything would be good. Cant just be 1. People living here and 2. Thing tourists visit

Don't disagree.

Living in Bayside and walking through the PATH on a regular basis, I've seen my fair share of businesses open and close due to lack of business though: Nforno, Gong Cha, Thisel and Popeyes to name a few just in Bayside. Food halls are busy at very specific times of the day and ghost towns at all others - just look at any in the Financial District or even Waterworks on Adelaide. I can't remember the last time I went to a public library....

What I don't want is an Aura type mini-mall (which is also a ghost town most of the day - borderline feels unsafe). I think the silos will present an opportunity for some sort of a cultural or community gathering place much like the recently announced Corleck at the Canada Malting Silos at Bathurst.

I think there is some balance to what WT has proposed for the slip thus far (year round pools, vendors, water taxi's, cultural centre in Quayside Phase 2), provided the housing and transit are built in a timely manner. Again though....chicken and egg. What comes first??