Southcore
Active Member
As long as there are enough micro 300 something sq ft studios and 1 beds under 550 sq ft they'll sell this and Mirvish Gehry easily. YC Condos will probably be at the bare minimum 70% sold after this weekend
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verticalvillage
Active Member
I have regular mood swings between loving and hating projects like this for one simple reason: why do Toronto developers set the bar SO LOW when it comes to standing out architecturally? Is it laziness? Is it the city's bureaucratic approval system?
Even these buildings, some of which relatively nice, could have been so much more than the current plan. I'm thinking along the line of a smaller and scaled-back version of this (I know it's a bit of an extreme example).
http://www.dezeen.com/2012/05/18/slideshow-feature-yongsan-international-business-district/
http://www.archdaily.com/tag/yongsan-international-business-district/
Many other large condominiums being built in places like New York (like 56 Leonard, 111 West57th, 8 Spruce Street), London (1 Blackfriars, Herzog and DeMueron's Canary Wharf Tower), and countless other cities in Europe and Asia have the same market for upper-middle class professionals who can afford units in these buildings. why do Toronto developers settle on a boring box instead of try to make something interesting and unique? Are they really so concerned about profit that they are unwilling to spend even a little bit of money on removing their building from the typology of the extruded, balconied box?
Even these buildings, some of which relatively nice, could have been so much more than the current plan. I'm thinking along the line of a smaller and scaled-back version of this (I know it's a bit of an extreme example).
http://www.dezeen.com/2012/05/18/slideshow-feature-yongsan-international-business-district/
http://www.archdaily.com/tag/yongsan-international-business-district/
Many other large condominiums being built in places like New York (like 56 Leonard, 111 West57th, 8 Spruce Street), London (1 Blackfriars, Herzog and DeMueron's Canary Wharf Tower), and countless other cities in Europe and Asia have the same market for upper-middle class professionals who can afford units in these buildings. why do Toronto developers settle on a boring box instead of try to make something interesting and unique? Are they really so concerned about profit that they are unwilling to spend even a little bit of money on removing their building from the typology of the extruded, balconied box?
Ramako
Moderator
Designs like the ones you pointed out aren't cheap to build, and cities where such designs are built (e.g. New York and London) have populations of ultra-wealthy home buyers that Toronto can't come close to matching.
There's also more going on with the designs that balconied boxes. One's got an oval floorplate, and two of them cantilever out halfway up. It's not easy find towers in the world that do that. In fact, I'd be shocked if the two cantilevered towers are final designs.
ushahid
Senior Member
one reason for cheap buildings might be developers concerned about profit but what I think is that all those countries create business and attract investors, whereas Canada or Canadian cities does not attract as many investors as other cities like NYC, London, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Dubai, Sydney and Melbourne and many other cities. investors have the surety and proof that if they invest they will get their money back. Canada need to create business.
Ramako
Moderator
This is pure nonsense. Our building boom is largely due to massive foreign investment in our condo market. Furthermore, many would argue that it's investor-purchasers that result in cheap buildings, whereas local purchasers who actually intend to live in their units are far more concerned with quality.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
Toronto recently had arguably the hottest residential real estate market on the entire planet due to the strength of the market and the relative safety of foreign investors parking their money in Canadian dollars (I.e. a key reason why Toronto and Vancouver took off). The Toronto condo market for the few years prior to last year had a stronger market then any of the cities mentioned in your post.
Hanlansboy
Active Member
Totally agree, so what if we have the most construction in the Western Hemisphere?......I equate it to the food critics expression on the Simpsons who says "why make 31 flavours when you can't get vanilla right?" Why do they keep building these square boxes of glass (which, I might add, will not last beyond 30 years before it all needs replacing) that look like clones of every other new tower (save perhaps Aura, the Ice Towers, and the L Tower)? If we're going to build, why not aim higher? The market is obviously there, and I'm willing to bet many would pay more for the distinction of living in an artistic tower of non-conformity. As for height, if I have one dying wish, it's that please, for the love of god, build something over 300 meters to top the very old record of FCP, with so much construction, it's time to take our skyline to the next level. I know we'll never be Dubai, nor should we be (we don't have any oil billionaires to pay for it), but the demand is there. I know many will completely disagree, but it's time we built something appropriate to usher us into the ever increasing heights of modern architecture. 1-7 Yonge has so much potential, yet they still manage to ruin the project before it even begins. Or is there something I'm not aware of? Is there a curse in Toronto on any building over 300 meters, or one with a little artistic merit? Bottom line, if we're going to brag to the international community about our rate of construction, then please, I beg of the powers that be, give us something worth bragging about.....but that's just my two cents.
RiverCity1
Active Member
Agreed, Ramako! Nonsense. Haven't people heard that the world is in a mess, and social welfare governments are falling due to huge debt burdens? Wake up! Canada is highly regarded as a safe and conservative place to invest. Our banks are some of the tops in the world. We managed to stay afloat, and investors see this. Our building boom is not by accident, regardless of one's feeling about 'boring' architecture. There is money all over the world, and as long as these other countries continue to fail, foreign money will come here. It's not really a question. It's just facts and economics.
ksun
Senior Member
Hardly the entire planet if you include Asian cities. The condo boom in Toronto is hardly comparable with the speed of development in some Chinese cities (not necessarily first tier ones) for example.
Among developed countries, probably. Planet, no.
RiverCity1
Active Member
Yes, development in China's "ghost cities" have outpaced our meagre construction boom in Toronto.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
That is what happens when you have several hundred thousand people moving into cities every day.
FNTS
Active Member
I agree with most of what's been said, but RiverCity1, I can't help but comment on the reason why some countries aren't doing well right now. It's not the Welfare State countries as a group that are failing (Britain, Germany and Sweden, amongst others, are doing relatively fine); and those that are failing, it's not because they had huge debt burdens. For instance Ireland and Spain were models of virtue and had decreasing debt-to-gdp levels since the mid-90s (lower than those of Germany and France when the crisis began, lower than Canada too), and only increased their debt after the collapse had started to palliate its effects, something many countries did, Canada included. Austerity measures made everything even worse by further weakening demand.
ksun
Senior Member
Not sure if you know much about China beyond what is normally reported by Global and Mail, or if you actually have been there... I have, many times due to work, and I wouldn't dismiss growing second tier cities such as Wuhan and Hangzhou as "ghost towns". Both have about 6.5M urban people and growing, more than GTA.
Let's not dismiss other places easily just because we don't know much about them, OK? Toronto is nowhere near "the hottest residential building market on the planet".
ksun
Senior Member
This is the part I never truly understood.
Everyone says Toronto is growing so fast, but official stats show Toronto had 2.615M in 2011, compared with 2.503M in 2006. It is a meagre 4.5% over 5 years, or 0.9% a year. Or 112k over 5 years, 22,400 a year, or 60 people a day.
Is it really considered fast? I am afraid the condo boom doesn't really mean impressive population growth, or I am missing something?
RiverCity1
Active Member
Yes, we get it! Communist China will always outpace our meagre construction boom in Toronto.