[Admiral Beez]

Except that this is not a dedicated bike lane.

AoD

Then why have dedicated and signed "Bicycle Signal" traffic lights, with a big bicycle image painted on the path surface?

IMO, of the paths in Toronto this has to be one of the MOST dedicated to bikes. It's got bicycle signals, bicycle signage, lane dividers, yield signs, dedicated stop zone indicators and speed limit signs. What else do you need to define this as a dedicated bike path?

 

[salsa]

This is very much in fact a dedicated bike lane. The rest of the Martin Goodman Trail is a shared space. Along QQ, this is not the case. They have segregated pedestrians and painted bicycle markings on the trail. Please do not use this to walk.

But cyclists still have to share the trail with rollerbladers and runners, whereas with a conventional bike lane only cyclists can use it. At least that's what I assume is the case for QQ.

 

[Napoleon]

This reminds me of the Martin Goodman Trail along the eastern Beach(es), where pedestrians are supposed to be on the boardwalk while bicycles are on the paved trail. If people can walk on both the boardwalk and the trail, thus putting pedestrians at risk of collision with bikes, then what's the point of the trail?

There's something about a bike path that's just irresistible to pedestrians. Even when the pedestrian path is both closer to the water and on a beautiful boardwalk, something makes them want to walk where the bikes go.

But cyclists still have to share the trail with rollerbladers and runners, whereas with a conventional bike lane only cyclists can use it.

I'm not sure this is meant to be shared with rollerbladers and cyclists. In particular, I would suggest that this trail is too narrow to be shared with "serious rollerbladers". They tend to use a stride that would take up both directions of this path. Even in other parts of the MGT, I find passing these rollerbladers to be a bit dangerous. As for runners, anyone going at the bike speed limit is a very serious runner indeed. The typical jogger is often closer to 6-10 km/hr which again presents quite a speed mismatch on a narrow path. I think this is really not meant to be a multi-use trail in this part. I would be nice for Waterfront Toronto to explicitly clarify that to prevent confusion.

 

[Admiral Beez]

There's something about a bike path that's just irresistible to pedestrians. Even when the pedestrian path is both closer to the water and on a beautiful boardwalk, something makes them want to walk where the bikes go.

The same goes for train tracks. As a kid I loved walking along the tracks, and wasn't deterred by the fact that a few people get killed every year walking where they shouldn't.

 

[Bayer]

Bollards would be useful. As a pedestrian, I would feel safer.

 

[PinkLucy]

But cyclists still have to share the trail with rollerbladers and runners, whereas with a conventional bike lane only cyclists can use it. At least that's what I assume is the case for QQ.

We don't HAVE to share

Rollerblades make sense because it would be hard to ride on the brick sidewalk.

I'm not sure this is meant to be shared with rollerbladers and cyclists. In particular, I would suggest that this trail is too narrow to be shared with "serious rollerbladers". They tend to use a stride that would take up both directions of this path. Even in other parts of the MGT, I find passing these rollerbladers to be a bit dangerous. As for runners, anyone going at the bike speed limit is a very serious runner indeed. The typical jogger is often closer to 6-10 km/hr which again presents quite a speed mismatch on a narrow path. I think this is really not meant to be a multi-use trail in this part. I would be nice for Waterfront Toronto to explicitly clarify that to prevent confusion.

But yeah, like Napoleon said. Rollerbladers take up a LOT of room. That said, the "regulars" (yes, cool guy with the duck quack whistle, I'm looking at you) move quickly and aren't a problem -- they know how to share. It's the couples hand-in-hand taking up the entire trail that drive me nuts

As a former runner, I understand why runners prefer the asphalt. Again, the regulars know how to share. The others? Not so much.

The bollards would be a good idea -- a physical separation that is obvious. I do think that as the trees mature, this will happen on its own.

 

[W. K. Lis]

This
You call this "bicycle signals"? What if you can't read English?

...

...

These are "bicycle signals":

And no cluttering verbage signage either.

 

[Admiral Beez]

This
You call this "bicycle signals"? What if you can't read English?

What if you're not an automobile user (accustomed to traffic lights) and colour blind?

I jest of course, and those signals are even better, and a stronger demo that these are indeed dedicate bicycle paths. Indeed, if these weren't dedicated for bikes, instead of only bicycle images on the path surface you'd have some of these....

 

[W. K. Lis]

This is what Queen's Quay traffic lights appear to appear at the moment. (Without glasses.)

 

[Napoleon]

WK Lis, is that photo with the bike symbols from Montreal? In any case, I should stop complaining too much as a cyclist about QQ. I think the real priority is to fix the signage for cars, as they can do a lot more damage to streetcars, pedestrians, cyclists, and other cars, than I ever could on my bike. I'm definitely hoping it becomes way more intuitive ASAP.

 

[torman404]

This is very much in fact a dedicated bike lane. The rest of the Martin Goodman Trail is a shared space. Along QQ, this is not the case. They have segregated pedestrians and painted bicycle markings on the trail. Please do not use this to walk.

Note there are (were?) "Shared Pathway" signs posted along the MGT which may have led to some confusion. I agree, it's a silly place to walk given the ample space on the "pedestrian promenade".

 

[Cityminded]

Exactly. Right now every intersection on Queens Quay has a bunch of identical-looking traffic lights, with small signs next to some of them saying what each one is for. Is this really the best design, to be putting another sign next to a traffic signal to tell you what the signal means? Every driver/cyclist/pedestrian has to survey all the lights, read the signs, and try to figure out which signals apply to them. And now they're going to "improve" things by putting up more signs, like ones that say something like "Pay attention to the signs!"

They should definitely have bicycle-icon signals, and arrow signals for the left-turn lights. This kind of stuff - best practices - can been seen in many other cities. Someone just has to care enough to do some homework!

These are "bicycle signals":

And no cluttering verbage signage either.

 

[flyinggoats]

Exactly. Right now every intersection on Queens Quay has a bunch of identical-looking traffic lights, with small signs next to some of them saying what each one is for. Is this really the best design, to be putting another sign next to a traffic signal to tell you what the signal means? Every driver/cyclist/pedestrian has to survey all the lights, read the signs, and try to figure out which signals apply to them. And now they're going to "improve" things by putting up more signs, like ones that say something like "Pay attention to the signs!"

They should definitely have bicycle-icon signals, and arrow signals for the left-turn lights. This kind of stuff - best practices - can been seen in many other cities. Someone just has to care enough to do some homework!

These are "bicycle signals":

And no cluttering verbage signage either.

I asked about this earlier. Up until a month ago, the highway traffic act did not allow for bicycle signals. The bill that now allows for these signals received royal assent on June 2 (likely after the current signals were procured). Hopefully we will see modifications made so that we have these.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Shouldn't they have signs in French, Spanish, and Portuguese, as well, for the Pan Am Games especially. Not everyone would be able to read the English signs. They'll be seeing round red, yellow, and green lights, period.

At least, it's not the Olympics, else we'll need a lot more signs than four.

 

[APTA-2048]

Had a walk through the Harbourfront this week and it looks absolutely beautiful. I still vividly remember the grunginess of it in the 1990s. Unfortunately saw more than a few a-hole cycalists who seem to use the path as a highway to cut through the neighbourhood with no regard for their surroundings. Was a little confused by the Harbourfront streetcar stop. It looks like they want to discourage walking to and from York St, but I found it more convenient to get where I needed to go. Was also a little confused where pedestrians are to wait to cross the street. The large crowd seemed to wait on the bike path.