[ndawgg]

There are a number of signs that point to the streetcar in union station the only place it gets tricky to fin is once you are on the new platform as you pretty much have to go behind the wall to get to it. I think of the two the ferry is more of a tourist destination then the airport is, there are also sign that say all streetcars serve the island ferry and harbourfront plus the stop is announced as Queens Quay Island Ferry Terminal. As for the island airport unless you know where it is most poel don't know it exists.

Hmm I didn't see any on either platform. So arriving coming south on the Yonge Line I was looking for the streetcar tunnel and since the depressing artwork is blocking the other platform I couldn't see that it was on the other side.

 

[ndawgg]

They had guiders on them for awhile and have a couple of metro links staff on broad them for the pan am/ Para Pan Am games but they are pretty much useless unless you go up to them. No matter how much help you give people they will be confused no mater what you do. You can put up a big flashing sign that says pay her and someone will ask do I pay here?

I definitely agree that there will always be those people. But I've lived downtown for 12 years and had I not jumped on the streetcar while in the Union tunnel, I would have also gone to the front doors with my token and been lost as to where I could put it, so I can't fault tourists for having no clue. The driver was also useless at helping anyone and it was left up to fellow passengers which is also wrong.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The driver was also useless at helping anyone and it was left up to fellow passengers which is also wrong.

The reason why the driver is separate from the passengers on the new ones is so they can pay attention to the road, yes it means they can't answer questions but when your driving a 98 foot vehicle filled with passengers you can't stop to answer every question. Personally I think it's great that fellow Torntonians myself included help poel to find out how to pay on the new ones. Also right now when the fare inspectors come on them they do offer assistance as well.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Hmm I didn't see any on either platform. So arriving coming south on the Yonge Line I was looking for the streetcar tunnel and since the depressing artwork is blocking the other platform I couldn't see that it was on the other side.

I think they mention them on the signs pointing to the stairs. Also the signs to the new platform mention it too but depending on which stairway you use it can be hard to find. The essayist one to find it from is to use the one by the elevator to the north to finch platform as it's right beside it.

 

[ehlow]

TTC fares in general are pretty confusing now, with POP and non-POP routes, different types of machines, tokens, paper transfers, Metropass, Presto etc.

Should be simplified hopefully when it's unified with one system.

Also with both Spadina and Queens Quay routes it would be easy for tourists heading to the island airport to get on the wrong streetcar.

Though, personally I found that there was clear signage to get to the streetcars from the new Union subway station.

 

[PinkLucy]

Actually if you read my post without being so dismissive I will clarify that it was two different cyclists, not one. I actually only saw two going in that direction so my issue was with 100% of the cyclists I saw.

And my TTC beef was with the new streetcars and how the front doors, aka the doors most people go in, don't have anything but a Presto reader and no signage about what to do or how to pay. Since this is a new streetcar issue And we only have a few in service, this is not currently a problem that could "happen anywhere" and maybe if we complain rather than be dismissive about it, the TTC can figure it out before every route gets these. But again thanks for your constructive criticism.

Your post wasn't clear. You said "a cyclist" and then you said "the cyclist". You didn't say it was a second, another or a different cyclist.

My point about the TTC complaint was not to be dismissive about the complaint but rather that it doesn't relate to the QQ revitilization since the new streetcars also run on the 510 and occasionally the 511 routes, meaning that the issue could happen elsewhere on the TTC and isn't caused by Queen's Quay. The TTC complaint was the most detailed part of your rant and would likely be better addressed in a TTC related thread.

 

[ndawgg]

Your post wasn't clear. You said "a cyclist" and then you said "the cyclist". You didn't say it was a second, another or a different cyclist.

My point about the TTC complaint was not to be dismissive about the complaint but rather that it doesn't relate to the QQ revitilization since the new streetcars also run on the 510 and occasionally the 511 routes, meaning that the issue could happen elsewhere on the TTC and isn't caused by Queen's Quay. The TTC complaint was the most detailed part of your rant and would likely be better addressed in a TTC related thread.

My rant was based upon my experience on queens quay with cyclists, the streetcars that run on that route (and not many others) and the specific driver that was of no help in a high tourist area. But I forgot that on urban Toronto you're not allowed to say anything negative about queens quay. Yes it's amazing but that doesn't make it perfect.

 

[ndawgg]

The reason why the driver is separate from the passengers on the new ones is so they can pay attention to the road, yes it means they can't answer questions but when your driving a 98 foot vehicle filled with passengers you can't stop to answer every question. Personally I think it's great that fellow Torntonians myself included help poel to find out how to pay on the new ones. Also right now when the fare inspectors come on them they do offer assistants as well.

I agree they need to pay attention to the road but this was fare related stuff while he was stopped at a stop. I too think it's great when others help but the streetcar was almost empty and I wasn't much help because I didn't know either.

Things should eventually get easier when there are less ways to pay but if you're a business with multiple ways to pay for the next year or two then you make sure you have them accessible at the front doors where everyone's loading. It's like Walmart having only self checkouts that accept only MasterCard at the front doors and you have to just know that if you want to pay with cash debit or visa then you need to find the register in the pharmacy without the help of signage or employees.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I agree they need to pay attention to the road but this was fare related stuff while he was stopped at a stop. I too think it's great when others help but the streetcar was almost empty and I wasn't much help because I didn't know either.

The cabs were not designed for them to be able to talk to the public unless there is an emergency then there is an intercom to the driver. Also by having the driver isolated it stop them having to deal with fare dispute and there have been too many incidents where TTC drivers have been hit and or spit on by poel who don;t want to pay the correct fare for them and the union to put up with it anymore. It's a learning curve for everyone as it will be once presto is system wide in the next couple years.

 

[ndawgg]

The cabs were not designed for them to be able to talk to the public unless there is an emergency then there is an intercom to the driver. Also by having the driver isolated it stop them having to deal with fare dispute and there have been too many incidents where TTC drivers have been hit and or spit on by poel who don;t want to pay the correct fare for them and the union to put up with it anymore. It's a learning curve for everyone as it will be once presto is system wide in the next couple years.

Then I think that's a design flaw/poor choice. If you can't ask the driver how to pay, or if you're on the proper train, then that's a problem. They can still have some sort of wall or cage put around them if they want, but people should be able to talk to them, which with the current configuration, you can't really. In order to hear them, they'd have to turn completely around which means they're not looking at the road at all. The TTC is terrible at wayfinding and customer service, and you need at least one in order to get people where they want to go. This design appears to have neither.

At least, like you say, in a few years it will be pretty much Presto only and therefore easier to pay. But I still think it's unacceptable to just say, "f* it" for the few years in between.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Then I think that's a design flaw/poor choice. If you can't ask the driver how to pay, or if you're on the proper train, then that's a problem. They can still have some sort of wall or cage put around them if they want, but people should be able to talk to them, which with the current configuration, you can't really. In order to hear them, they'd have to turn completely around which means they're not looking at the road at all. The TTC is terrible at wayfinding and customer service, and you need at least one in order to get people where they want to go. This design appears to have neither.

At least, like you say, in a few years it will be pretty much Presto only and therefore easier to pay. But I still think it's unacceptable to just say, "f* it" for the few years in between.

All new Streetcars are being designed like that so that the job of the operator is just that to operate the vehicle . As for the TTC wayfininding I think it's pretty good but then I use it all the time. I also get asked by people all the time for help finding something on it and will usually point them in the right direction.

 

[ndawgg]

All new Streetcars are being designed like that so that the job of the operator is just that to operate the vehicle . As for the TTC wayfininding I think it's pretty good but then I use it all the time. I also get asked by people all the time for help finding something on it and will usually point them in the right direction.

Yeah I think that's the problem that only people who use it all the time find it easy (because it's habit more than actual sign reading). Luckily there are nice people like you (and me whenever I can) that help people out. But tourists or new Canadian/Torontonians shouldn't have to rely solely on the kindness of strangers when a few extra maps/signs/customer service agents would help. I can boil all the TTC's wayfinding problems down to one small but ridiculous example...on the new subway maps, green isn't where you're going it's where you've gone and the red lights (STOP) are where you're going. Completely backwards and I think that is the small example that shows they just don't know what the heck they're doing, but now I'm way off-topic so I'll stop there lol

 

[Forgotten]

Then I think that's a design flaw/poor choice. If you can't ask the driver how to pay, or if you're on the proper train, then that's a problem. They can still have some sort of wall or cage put around them if they want, but people should be able to talk to them, which with the current configuration, you can't really. In order to hear them, they'd have to turn completely around which means they're not looking at the road at all. The TTC is terrible at wayfinding and customer service, and you need at least one in order to get people where they want to go. This design appears to have neither.

At least, like you say, in a few years it will be pretty much Presto only and therefore easier to pay. But I still think it's unacceptable to just say, "f* it" for the few years in between.

It's not a design flaw. It's a design feature. It makes it more like a subway and that's a good thing. You won't have 1 moron holding up 100 hundred others by chit chatting with the driver and asking her if this is the right bus to the Guvernment. This improves the experience for the non-morons by a factor 1000.

 

[PinkLucy]

Well, they're not going to find the Guvernment any time time soon.

 

[ndawgg]

It's not a design flaw. It's a design feature. It makes it more like a subway and that's a good thing. You won't have 1 moron holding up 100 hundred others by chit chatting with the driver and asking her if this is the right bus to the Guvernment. This improves the experience for the non-morons by a factor 1000.

Well that's productive. The "morons" or perhaps you meant tourists, won't be holding you up because of all door boarding unless you "moronically" wait at the front door with the other "morons".