They also failed to add signs in French... or every language in the world, if the Olympics come to town.

Alternatively, they failed to go with pictographs. But then those signs and signals would be understood by most people, and we can't do that.
 
Oh man.. I've never used any sort of infrastructure even similar to the Queen's Quay bike path over here in Peel Region and I thought it was pretty easy to understand. Although I think I jump a few red lights by accident the first time haha. People just lack common sense, including the people who planned this.
 
I'm not sure how the original problem was too much signage. Was there not enough information on them? Too much? Contradictory information?

I do agree that the process of crossing the street as a pedestrian should begin with a signal button on the sidewalk side of the MGT, not between the MGT and the ROW. The bike/pedestrian conflict arises partly from pedestrians viewing the MGT as another kind of sidewalk or a vacant zone to be crossed, and partly from cyclists not interpreting the gaps in the MGT where the bike signals are as pedestrian crossings, despite the blue boxes for stopping in.
 
I've also found it unclear if runners are welcome on the path or not. Some of the signs suggest yes, some of the design suggests no. On the more touristy stretches of Queens Quay running in a bike line becomes an appealing option.
 
MetroMan said:
The fact that they have to explain it, means that they've failed in making it intuitive.

One example is the over complicating of pedestrian crossings. Why have the crosswalk button on the far side of the bike lane? It's way too narrow of a space for people to wait putting them dangerously close to the streetcar ROW in front of them and bikes behind. There isn't enough of room for people which they had to emphasize in the video telling additional people to wait before the bike lane. Putting the crosswalk button before the bike lane would allow for plenty of room for everybody to wait safely without asking people to essentially jay walk across the bike lane when it's green for bikes.
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Bingo!
They refuse to acknowledge the design is bad, but not are releasing videos to explain it. Sadly, probably the only people watching the videos are ones that already know there's a problem.

I do think they should re-design the intersections. Pedestrians should have both a crossing button and a clearly marked stopping area south of the MGT. It is absolutely idiotic to give bikes a green signal and then expect them to be prepared to yield to pedestrians crossing perpendicular to their path. "Green means go" is much more intuitive than noticing a "Subtle transition to Paleo-tec pavers from the granite pavers".
 
bennessb said:
I've also found it unclear if runners are welcome on the path or not. Some of the signs suggest yes, some of the design suggests no. On the more touristy stretches of Queens Quay running in a bike line becomes an appealing option.
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It is a mixed use path. Cyclists, rollerbladers, and runners/joggers are all allowed. Only motorized vehicles, including e-bikes, are prohibited--though, of course, I regularly see 3-5 e-bikes going about 30-40 km/h each time I bike down it.
 
Megaton327 said:
It is a mixed use path. Cyclists, rollerbladers, and runners/joggers are all allowed. Only motorized vehicles, including e-bikes, are prohibited--though, of course, I regularly see 3-5 e-bikes going about 30-40 km/h each time I bike down it.
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WF Toronto does indeed claim it's intended to be a mixed use path. I wouldn't say they designed it as such though. It's too narrow to have heavy usage by the mixed modes. Sport rollerbladers could easily take both lanes at once. Passing joggers could also be problematic. If they really wanted it to be mixed use, wider would have been far better.

E-bikes are a growing scourge in Toronto right now. They attempt to alternately follow the rules of the road, bikes on bike paths, pedestrians on sidewalks, whatever they find useful at that moment. I find them very unpredictable and not at all suited to the infrastructure available. I generally applaud anything that gets someone out of a car and onto transit, a bike, or walking; however, these really give me pause.
 
Is it just me, but it seems that in Ontario we are not permitted to use a red arrow traffic signal. Haven't seen any in Ontario... yet. Just green or yellow arrows.

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I agree with the theme of many of the comments above.

The MGT hasn't been designed like a street (only, just for bikes). If they had done, it would have been very intuitive for cyclists. Instead, they have decided to create a new type of intersection design, one that doesn't exist anywhere else.

To start with, having the same "zebra stripes" for where pedestrians cross the bike path as where they cross the road would be intuitive.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Is it just me, but it seems that in Ontario we are not permitted to use a red arrow traffic signal. Haven't seen any in Ontario... yet. Just green or yellow arrows.
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It would be very useful in some places…especially places where ignoring a no right on red is dangerous. The number one place that comes to mind for me is where Harbord/Hoskins hits Queens Park. There's a separate phase for pedestrians and cyclists and lots of cars just turn right anyway during it.
 
I found today that many cyclists really speed along the path.

Did anyone have a pool for how long until something got dug up? There was a stack of the red and grey granite pavers in a pile just west of Simcoe in the strip between the bike path and streetcar tracks. A very small area was fenced off and one worker was doing something right at the ground level. Who wants to bet that the pavers won't be properly reset or that - shudder! - an asphalt patch gets slapped in?

I also found that the gravel from the tree pits is starting to drift away into the walking area and into the gutter between the bike path and tracks. Will this gravel get put back or will it just accumulate as people knock the gravel out of the tree pits?
 
AlbertHWagstaff said:
I found today that many cyclists really speed along the path.

Did anyone have a pool for how long until something got dug up? There was a stack of the red and grey granite pavers in a pile just west of Simcoe in the strip between the bike path and streetcar tracks. A very small area was fenced off and one worker was doing something right at the ground level. Who wants to bet that the pavers won't be properly reset or that - shudder! - an asphalt patch gets slapped in?

I also found that the gravel from the tree pits is starting to drift away into the walking area and into the gutter between the bike path and tracks. Will this gravel get put back or will it just accumulate as people knock the gravel out of the tree pits?
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The first year will see some upgrading and changes since some area were rush for completion and the standard settlement for various things.

Speeding cycles, who would thought of that?? Expect to see more of it since they are no different than car drivers.

I saw a lot of those red arrows for right turning on my trip a few weeks ago as well for left turns. Long over due here.
 
For cars, the speed limit on Queens Quay is 40 km/h. For bikes, is the Queens Quay speed limit 40 km/h?

If so, then the bikes aren't speeding, they're just getting where they need to go in a timely manner like the car drivers.

If not, why is bike infrastructure designed such that bikes are required to go slower than the cars they run alongside?
 
Megaton327 said:
It is a mixed use path. Cyclists, rollerbladers, and runners/joggers are all allowed. Only motorized vehicles, including e-bikes, are prohibited--though, of course, I regularly see 3-5 e-bikes going about 30-40 km/h each time I bike down it.
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Interesting. I've never seen e-bikes there although I expected to. And the new signage that went up last week made it clear that runners and roller bladers are welcome
 
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