Walked leisurely along the pedestrian area on the south side of QQ between John & York streets last Saturday night, probably took about 10 minutes. Not busy at all, comparatively speaking. Witnessed 2 pedestrian-cyclist near misses and 1 pedestrian-streetcar near miss, both at the QQ - York intersection. Not the "Pokemon Go / staring at a phone" type either, they were just not realizing the changes in rights-of-way. The increased signage for vehicles is just not cutting it.

The colour change on the cycling trail is good but it's only periodic, right? Maybe it should be a completely different - and highly visible - colour all the way along? And a different - but still highly visible - colour for streetcars? A kelly green to remind people of the original grass design? And maybe barriers to stop pedestrians from crossing except at thoroughly-signposted crosswalks? I understand that much more qualified minds than mine have been working on this, but the way it is, it's not great.
 
I was down at QQ today and it was busy, but pretty decent. Heard a lot of bells and horns as mostly pedestrians crossed against lights or between intersections. It's busy down there...you have to pay attention and be smart. And everyone needs to slow down...pedestrians, cars, cyclists (seriously...it's not a bike highway).

That said, it's no different than most areas of the central Amsterdam. For example: https://flic.kr/p/ef7WXc

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Again, converting, if not all, then a significant portion of this ROW to either grass or just open rail w/ballast would make it all but impossible for a car to driver across except at designated intersections.

It would reduce future maintenance costs considerably.
 
Given the congestion and confusion around there, I think the emergency services people had a point in keeping it drivable by them. I'm sure others have suggested a faux lawn solution that would send the don't drive signal but still be drivable if need be.
 
CapitalSeven said:
Given the congestion and confusion around there, I think the emergency services people had a point in keeping it drivable by them. I'm sure others have suggested a faux lawn solution that would send the don't drive signal but still be drivable if need be.
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I think the concrete should be milled if possible to create an audible signal that this is not a place for cars
 
Northern Light said:
Again, converting, if not all, then a significant portion of this ROW to either grass or just open rail w/ballast would make it all but impossible for a car to driver across except at designated intersections.

It would reduce future maintenance costs considerably.
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I don't know about that... We've seen several cases of cars making it pretty far into Spadina Station, or Union Station even though it's just open rail through the tunneled portions :p
 
Tuscani01 said:
I don't know about that... We've seen several cases of cars making it pretty far into Spadina Station, or Union Station even though it's just open rail through the tunneled portions :p
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When Fleet Street was under construction not only did a driver take their vehicle drive around the construction barriers to go down the row (while yelling at my wife and I to "get stop walking on the road") but could be found in the 4 foot deep hole (hit an incomplete sewer box) an hour later.

It doesn't matter what you do, some one will prove they're a bigger idiot than could be anticipated.
 
I walked down to QQ today around the lunch hour. I was pretty shocked at how all the modes seem to “merge” at York Street on the south side. I can’t imagine what the chaos is like on the weekend. Two guys were crossing the street and were standing in the streetcar lane (I don’t think it was fully their fault compared to how other streets in the city are designed and how people are used to crossing the street). The streetcar honked at them a few times until they moved but didn’t slow down – I’m sure this happens all the time.


The point I wanted to make is, this is a radical street design compared to the rest of the city, as the city favours car movement in almost all ways. The city won’t favour pedestrians with much more basic ways, such as no rights on reds, or advances pedestrian light before car green light, but was prepared to implement such a mixed use at QQ.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
The problem isn't QQ per se - but how badly our drivers handles exceptional road arrangements that's like what, commonplace anywhere else in the world. Drives too fast, assumes too much, don't read signs...

AoD
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To be fair, only a small portion of our local driving population has experience said conditions (road alignments/designs around the world), and smaller number still have done so as drivers.

There are conditions here that are odd.........ever been to Brantford.........as a Freight Train rumbled right down the road through downtown?

I agree most drivers could and should adapt better than they do.

But making the design more intuitive could help.

I haven't seen many people accidentally drive their car down a major rail ROW, and I expect that is because the visual cues make it clear its for trains and not cars, and most folks
don't want to get their car stuck and have to be towed or craned off a track.

I think we have to make up our minds to make it clear where cars and welcome and not.


***

We also have to train drivers better, if the rules are the same as when I got my license (save and except for Graduating Lic. which I mercifully avoided) .....

Ontario has a 'written' test that you have to get a 80 on........which is 20% wrong...............

The road test was fairly similar if I recall.

You needn't ever get on a simulator which can better test your driving than any instructor, nor do you need any formal lessons or instruction to obtain your license.

We really should do better.

***

One other thought is that we can and should more rigorous police road etiquette. Many people blather on about how the autobahn in Germany (in portions) has no speed limit, but they often neglect to mention officious policing on passing rules, safe-distance-following rules, even ticket people for running out of gas!

The expectation placed on driving skill is different and more rigorous and stupidity rarely tolerated as an excuse.
 
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