[TOareaFan]

According to G&M the City bureaucrats are pushing hard for a full waterfront LRT. Toronto bureaucrats bypass politicians to make waterfront transit pitch See: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/city-leaders-push-for-waterfront-lrt/article20269853/ The proposed route includes the East Bayfront LRT, which was dangled as a possibility in the province’s last budget but remains far from certain. And it adds the Waterfront West LRT, which last saw the light of day as part of the Transit City plan championed by former mayor David Miller.

The Waterfront West LRT has had several variations. After Transit City was cancelled, though, the proposal sank into obscurity. The line has played no role in the fantasy transit maps produced by the various candidates for mayor.

Without discussing the merits of their plan, what on earth gives Andy Byford and Joe Pennachetti the right (or the notion of the right) that they can speak to the province and/or the feds on behalf of the city? When did they stand for election?

 

[nfitz]

Without discussing the merits of their plan, what on earth gives Andy Byford and Joe Pennachetti the right (or the notion of the right) that they can speak to the province and/or the feds on behalf of the city? When did they stand for election?

City Council has endorsed and supported the East Bayfront LRT and has directed both Byford and Pennachetti to discuss this with Waterfront Toronto and Metrolinx. Council has also authorized the City Manager to discuss Ontario Place and Exhibition Place with the province, including waterfront west transit expansion.

The East Bayfront LRT has always included a direct connection to Queens Quay West.

Why does it surprise you that the bureaucrats are doing what council directed them to do? It's not like anything would actually happen without council approval.

 

[ttk77]

Without discussing the merits of their plan, what on earth gives Andy Byford and Joe Pennachetti the right (or the notion of the right) that they can speak to the province and/or the feds on behalf of the city? When did they stand for election?

Why shouldn't they talk to the other levels of government? Nowhere in the article is it indicating that they're trying to supplant city council's authority. In fact, it explicitly states that they'll still have to go back to council to seek approval. All they're trying to do is get all their funding ducks in a row so that when it goes to council the discussion doesn't get bogged down by talk about money.

I think this is a great idea. Transit planning needs to be depoliticized and having people like Byford and Pennachetti lead the discussions on what goes where is a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TOareaFan]

City Council has endorsed and supported the East Bayfront LRT and has directed both Byford and Pennachetti to discuss this with Waterfront Toronto and Metrolinx. Council has also authorized the City Manager to discuss Ontario Place and Exhibition Place with the province, including waterfront west transit expansion.

The East Bayfront LRT has always included a direct connection to Queens Quay West.

Why does it surprise you that the bureaucrats are doing what council directed them to do? It's not like anything would actually happen without council approval.

No where in the article does it suggest that council directed them to have these conversations....in fact they themselves tout this as a new approach and the "next stop the feds" part is very interesting.

Anyway, you follow this stuff closely, so if you say they were just doing their jobs as directed by council I will accept that.

I will say, though, that $15B fund (that was supposed to last 10 years) is getting pretty much drawn down...and fast.

 

[nfitz]

I will say, though, that $15B fund (that was supposed to last 10 years) is getting pretty much drawn down...and fast.

No it won't. $15B doesn't go that far. A big project can consume much of it. The new Crossrail line in London for example has a $27 billion price tag. The Second Avenue Subway in New York (most of which isn't approved yet), has been estimated to cost $20 billion. Just making the commuter train modifications and expansions in New York City for the Long Island trains to get into Grand Central instead of Penn Station (East Side Access) has a US$11 billion price tag.

Keep in mind though, that $15B is in addition to the $10B already committed to the Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard, and VIVA lines - and whatever goes the SRT replacement. Not to mention the billions on the Spadina extension, new subway trains, new streetcars, Union Station, and the Georgetown line.

 

[T-Bor]

I will say, though, that $15B fund (that was supposed to last 10 years) is getting pretty much drawn down...and fast.

True, but I dont' think the $15B was ever supposed to cover EVERYTHING. Given that transit spending is usually 1/3 city 1/3 province 1/3 feds, it just means that they'll have $15B to match our $15B over 10 years. in theory.

 

[ksun]

It is time to stop pretending Toronto's waterfront stops at the foot of Yonge st. With all the development east of it, proper transit options must be provided to make it an appealing place to live (other than the idea of just living by the lake).

I am glad substantial progress has been made. Six years ago when I walked on Queens Quay, I was shocked to find the minute you pass Yonge st, the area looks increasingly suburban and even rural, without even a decent sidewalk, not to mention any amenities.

 

[TOareaFan]

No it won't. $15B doesn't go that far. A big project can consume much of it. The new Crossrail line in London for example has a $27 billion price tag. The Second Avenue Subway in New York (most of which isn't approved yet), has been estimated to cost $20 billion. Just making the commuter train modifications and expansions in New York City for the Long Island trains to get into Grand Central instead of Penn Station (East Side Access) has a US$11 billion price tag.

Keep in mind though, that $15B is in addition to the $10B already committed to the Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard, and VIVA lines - and whatever goes the SRT replacement. Not to mention the billions on the Spadina extension, new subway trains, new streetcars, Union Station, and the Georgetown line.

No, $15B is not much and I know it does not have to cover the projects underway but it still won't cover all of the transit projects that seem to be getting juggled around.

In that G&M article they say this waterfront project is now some sort of priority (pulling it up from the lower depths of ML's priority list) but does not cost that much money.....$1B or so......but if you assume that this is successful you are now down to $14B...with nearly 10 years to go and you have funded a project that no one that set up that $15B fund was even thinking about.

 

[TOareaFan]

It is time to stop pretending Toronto's waterfront stops at the foot of Yonge st. With all the development east of it, proper transit options must be provided to make it an appealing place to live (other than the idea of just living by the lake).

I am glad substantial progress has been made. Six years ago when I walked on Queens Quay, I was shocked to find the minute you pass Yonge st, the area looks increasingly suburban and even rural, without even a decent sidewalk, not to mention any amenities.

I always thought that east of yonge it looked very industrial....never dawned on me to consider it rural.

 

[DSC]

It is time to stop pretending Toronto's waterfront stops at the foot of Yonge st. With all the development east of it, proper transit options must be provided to make it an appealing place to live (other than the idea of just living by the lake).

I am glad substantial progress has been made. Six years ago when I walked on Queens Quay, I was shocked to find the minute you pass Yonge st, the area looks increasingly suburban and even rural, without even a decent sidewalk, not to mention any amenities.

Great to see that LRT talk continues and that WT are about to start work on the promenade east of Lower Jarvis. Details in WT's August Newsletter. "In early September, construction will begin on a series of interim improvements in East Bayfront which set the groundwork for the full vision for Queens Quay. First, for cyclists, the Martin Goodman Trail will be extended east along the south side of Queens Quay from Lower Jarvis to Parliament Street. Once this separated stretch of Martin Goodman Trail is in place, the road will be re-painted and the on-street bike lanes removed. By Spring 2015, when both this project and the revitalization of Queens Quay are complete, there will be a safe, off-street Martin Goodman Trail from Bathurst Street all the way to Parliament Street."

 

[nfitz]

It is time to stop pretending Toronto's waterfront stops at the foot of Yonge st.

Last time I checked, that's exactly where the waterfront stops.

Perhaps that's why they want to move the boat ...

 

[Jonny5]

I always thought that east of yonge it looked very industrial....never dawned on me to consider it rural.

Remember ksun thinks the definition of a city is any area within 20 metres of a 50+ story building. Everything else is farmland.

 

[P23]

Remember ksun thinks the definition of a city is any area within 20 metres of a 50+ story building. Everything else is farmland.

Haha, extremely funny... He's right, East of Yonge has only been empty lots and industrial until very recently and the only retail was the LCBO. It felt completely different from the surrounding area.

 

[salsa]

Remember ksun thinks the definition of a city is any area within 20 metres of a 50+ story building. Everything else is farmland.

Or Dallas

what's to see beyond Bloor st, Church st and Spadina ave? it is just a huge flat land with low rise houses, just like what you will see in Dallas

 

[pman]

Without discussing the merits of their plan, what on earth gives Andy Byford and Joe Pennachetti the right (or the notion of the right) that they can speak to the province and/or the feds on behalf of the city? When did they stand for election?

I understand your concern that Messrs. Byford and Pennachetti may be exceeding their job descriptions here. But if we leave transit planning to an elected council that is and will be dominated by suburban politicians, we're going to get a continuation of the sheer cluelessness that's made mobility in Toronto what it is today. At least with Byford, Pennachetti and - if she joins the discussion - Keesmaat, the adults are in the room. I'd far rather have transit discussions led by civil servants than the clowns who form the majority on City Council.